Unmasking Your Life's Blueprint: A Deep Dive into Purpose

Chris Kiefer (00:01.086)

Welcome back everybody to another episode of The Pursuit of Purpose. My name is Chris Kiefer and I am here with Blake Whiteman who is the lead pastor at Real Life Coeur d'Alene. So Blake, thank you so much for taking the time to come on and chat today.

Blake Whiteman (00:16.132)

Absolutely Chris, thanks for being persistent in your invitation to do so. I've been looking forward to it but we've been missing here and there but man happy to be here and glad to chat with you a little bit.

Chris Kiefer (00:27.13)

And for those of you listening, I was about to tell you this, Blake. So I just gave a talk yesterday, which I'll release in the near future on here for, and actually depending on, I don't know the timing, you may listen to the talk before this episode gets released, but it was a talk in this Man on a Mission group that I'm on, and it was a mission, I was explaining my personal mission, which is to champion the relentless pursuit of purpose.

And so in my talk, one of the things that I did was I led the roller coaster cheer. You familiar with the roller coaster cheer? So at the high school where you have your hands up and the person's leading and you're, ah! So I was demoing to the group, like, you're gonna scream, but I don't want just a scream. Like, I'll show you how loud I'm talking about. And so I was like, I put my mic down and I screamed as loud as I possibly could. And immediately I was like, I don't know how vocal cords work.

Blake Whiteman (01:02.027)

I think so, maybe a version.

Blake Whiteman (01:06.62)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh.

Chris Kiefer (01:24.61)

But something, there's like, immediately I was like, I think I kind of, I'm starting to lose my voice because I screamed so loud. So then the second half of my talk, I'm like clearing my throat. And I was like, I think I screamed a little bit too loud. But I set the example and everybody then, we did the cheer and it was fantastic. So if you're wondering why in the world you do a roller coaster cheer as part of a speech, you can check that out and see why. But.

Blake Whiteman (01:44.733)

There you go.

Blake Whiteman (01:52.226)

I'm interested.

Chris Kiefer (01:52.738)

The reason that that's relevant is because today we're going to be talking about purpose and pursuing purpose and just I know that's a thing that you are passionate about. So let's I guess I would say I'd be interested just to set the framework where we don't need to go on like Blake's life story unless there's things that I would say like tell me the key things that have happened in your life that have led you to be passionate about this particular topic.

Blake Whiteman (02:04.275)

Mm-hmm.

Blake Whiteman (02:22.544)

Yeah, it's good. Yeah, even, as we talked about this, even intrigued by your mission and the title of Why You Do Podcast is, there's a tremendous amount, I think for me, of even resonance with that and my own personal life and story. And for me, being now, moving on close to 13 years in pastoral ministry and leading a church and part of one...

Part of one of the many things we do is have the conversation of what is life and what is purpose and is there a greater purpose and how does an individual's purpose tie into that. And I think for everybody, but even me personally, you know, that question and the pursuit of that, I think every person has. But for me growing up, that was a question that I always had is, who am I? What's my...

life about is there an answer? Is there a direction? Is it up to me? Is it not? How does that work? And you know, for me, you know, Chris and I, we spent a little time together in the gym and both being athletes. And so I, at a very young age, whether I would describe it or not, was desiring to pursue what my life's purpose was. And, you know, I found success and failure.

and everything in between in a multitude of different things in school, in relationships, in family, in academics, in sports, in leadership, in all those sorts of things. And I think even at a young age and now until the age that I am, that's a constant question that for me has driven who I am and what my purpose is. What is purpose? How do I find it? What isn't it per se? And so for me, I believe that

you know my purpose is something that's rooted in what I would say is absolute truth and for me that life and all that it entails is not an accident and has been developed and made with intentionality and for me that's the God of the Bible that is true and if I believe that everything that I am and everything that there is has intentionality has a purpose I want to know if that purpose is.

Blake Whiteman (04:36.34)

and what that is for me and not only for me, for everybody else. So, you know, I at a young age chased everything there was to chase with relationships and trying to find identity and value in my accomplishments and in other people. And that's kind of a lonely road in an endless pit that never seems to be full enough, at least in my experience, which led me to really discovering what I believe is purpose. At 19 is when I finally did what I would say is

accept what I believe is true. The God of the Bible is true, the Bible is truth, at least for me in the journey that I've been on. And so I think what I do now, if I was to categorize it appropriately for our conversation is I believe that I, in a similar fashion, help people try to discover what their purpose is. And knowing what my purpose is allows me to help other people in discovering their purpose. So.

maybe a double intention there, that discovering my purpose and living it out is helping people discover their purpose and live it out. So, yeah.

Chris Kiefer (05:38.09)

Mm-hmm couple. I want there's a couple things that come to mind first that I completely agree and I'm gonna bring up a personal story that just happened an hour ago, but This is actually some context on so I've done CrossFit for the last five years and I'm like four days a week sometimes five days a week can for like five years straight and I had gotten some blood work done just because in the group that we're in that everyone was talking about like biohacking and

optimization and stuff. I was like, I feel pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong, but I was going to go get some blood work done just to see what else I could do, like maybe change my diet or whatever. And long story short, they said that I have Hashimoto's, which is your, your antibodies and your immune system is essentially tacking attacking your thyroid. And so the point is that now I'm like,

I was, I was made aware of something that I wouldn't have known about. Had I not been like trying to see what else I could do to be more optimal or whatever. And then it was like retroactively, they're talking about the symptoms. I was like, yeah, actually I have, feel like I have been more tired than I was, but you know, it's like, you never know. Is it because I ate those pancakes this morning or is it because I have four kids and I'm getting woken up? Like there's all these life things. I'm just like, yeah, maybe this is just what it's like to be 33 now. Like, who knows? But

Blake Whiteman (06:59.697)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (07:01.29)

the accident thing that you just said. I just went and saw an endocrinologist today and he was describing to me, which it's like I'm aware of the complexity of the body. Like I took bio, you know, and I went, like I have an education. So like you know things, but then you forget. And he's describing just this one little tiny system in the body of the, now I'm gonna, the pituitary gland.

Blake Whiteman (07:15.38)

Thanks for watching!

Chris Kiefer (07:31.034)

the like He drew this diagram for me And I'm just like he's describing like what's going on and how your pituitary gland creates I'm gonna I could be totally wrong, but this is I'll describe what I remember Creates TSH which is the thyroid simulating hormone which then tells your thyroid to create teeth for and then that just turned into T3 and then it tells your pituitary gland to not produce as much TSH and it's like this cycle and I'm just like

man, that is crazy. And I thought in the office today, it's like to think that there, like the people that think that this is just like, yeah, we were just microorganisms that just, you know, with enough randomness and infinite chance, we now are these super complex beings. That's just like, ah, not, I can't, but I can't buy it personally. And I'm just like, I had this moment in the office of just like,

Blake Whiteman (08:20.657)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (08:28.694)

This is incredible. The number of things and systems just inside of my body, let alone the fact that there's like an environment and air and the earth and spinning around the sun and it's like all of these things that come together, just perfectly. It's like, there's some pretty intelligent design in every, in us and everything around us. And so, yeah, I have a, I just had a moment of just like, yeah, there is.

intense purpose and intentionality around everything in our life.

Blake Whiteman (09:01.7)

Yeah, that's good. I think that, you know, at least in my own personal journey, there's, you know, there's information and there's experiences and there's people's stories that get shared. And, you know, I think in a lot of different ways, we get opportunity to make a decision in what we're going to put our faith and our belief in. And using the word faith, I don't mean like a religious faith, but more of just like, what is it that I trust in? What is it that I'm going to build my foundation in? You know, and I think that that's a true thing in

in life, whether we choose to acknowledge it and believe that or not, is that we're all putting our faith and our trust in something. And oftentimes the things in which we choose to put our faith and trust in are a byproduct of something else. Meaning maybe somebody's taught us something, maybe we've picked up something from our parents and our family, maybe it's been experiences, both good and bad. Oftentimes we will choose to put our faith and trust, our belief, build our life.

careers our families on things that you know we like or that we understand or are things that we can control and You know, I think that every person has the ability to look around and they're live and lives of other people and ask the question Like what is true? What's true? What's real? What is life about? What is it not about and then we're all just kind of on our own journey to putting it into practice Or not. And so yeah, there was 20 years of my life to where

you know, I was testing all sorts of ideas and what's good and what's not and what's who's right and who's wrong. And my, my parents clearly have no idea what they're talking about, right? In the middle school seasons and my coaches and teachers and, you know, I have all these desires and feelings and, you know, what is truth and what do I do with that? And, you know, there's been times and seasons in my life where I can justify pretty much anything.

You know, I can convince myself what truth is based on data. I can, you know, choose what truth is based on how I feel about it, or somebody else's story, what I like, what I don't like. And you know, a lot of times there's data in science and objectivity to that, and that helps elicit truth. But not all truth is objectifiable, right, or objective or measurable or quantitative. You know, there's qualitative pieces in life that people would not argue with, right? Like, how can you measure?

Blake Whiteman (11:22.424)

wind. I'm sure you can find a way to put some sort of a machine up there and do it, but you know, there's things that are there that give us the ability to do that. So I'm with you. There's different seasons in and out of life to where, you know, I think there's evidence, if we can use that word, for design and intentionality and a higher power, a cause to what life is. And then there's seasons to where that's just too hard to, you know, maybe grasp or...

Life is painful and so it challenges these notions and everything in between. So yeah, complexity is an interesting cat to try to look at and decide where it came from and how it works.

Chris Kiefer (12:02.474)

And you said, another thing I wanna go into, that you discovering and finding what truth you want to build your life on and discovering your purpose. I don't remember how you said inspiring other people. That is exactly like, to me, championing that something means that you are going to be the best example, so much so that someone could say that you won a championship in that field, right?

Blake Whiteman (12:16.69)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (12:30.826)

So you become a champion, but then in doing so, you show other people, hey, here's the roadmap, here's the path, let's go discover this for yourself as well. Tell me a little bit about that. What has that journey been like, and where do you feel like you are still uncovering, discovering personally? And then how is, I feel like it's a feedback loop.

Blake Whiteman (12:40.977)

Mm-hmm.

Blake Whiteman (13:00.77)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (13:00.842)

you helping others helps you and you discovering yours helps other people. You know, it's just a feedback loop.

Blake Whiteman (13:07.548)

Yeah, I think that's good. If I could speak from, I would say where I'm at today to answer that question and then maybe loop back around to historically how that's been a process. Again, for me, just the purpose that I believe that I have is both twofold, one that I've discovered and put effort and intentionality towards, but one that I also believe that God has set before me for my individual life. And what I believe because of that,

what the Bible says is true is that I've also experienced in life is that somebody's passionate about something or being a champion, like you said, is the way in which God reveals truth to us and invites us to invite others into seeing that truth. And so there's a model for the message, if you will. It's one thing to know things or to have a plan or have data, but I think the reality that I've experienced and people would say is true is...

If you're passionate about something, it's going to be what you're about, not just what you talk about. And so for me, it works kind of two ways to answer your question. I was a person growing up that was pretty cynical and pretty questionable for what was true and who are my friends and do people really care about me or not. And it was pretty easy to see through a lot of what I would say people would say is good and say is true and say is right when they weren't about it.

They weren't living it out. It wasn't something they were putting into practice. It was more, hey, just trust what I say, not what I do. Hey, let me tell you why this is the right thing. But when you don't practice that, how is that the right thing? So there was a lot of what I would say disconnect. When it comes to people's faith and the church, we like to use the word hypocrisy, which is appropriate. Not always a negative word, but just the concept that there's a facade or there's a mask.

that is a portrayal of that which is not true, but is a portrayal of that in which you're hopeful for. And so growing up, I've learned that, the thing that I'm passionate about is what I want my life to be about. And if I'm passionate about it, it should be something that I'm constantly practicing and learning and experiencing. And for me, testing and trying and putting into application to see if there's validity to what I believe is true, right? You can have an amazing.

Blake Whiteman (15:34.684)

business model and a fantastic mission. And if you're not trying it and practicing it and there's no results, I would be hard pressed to think that that's something that I would give my life to. And same thing with my own life and my own faith. I've discovered and will be discovering what I think is my purpose and helping other people discover what their purpose is along the way. And so it is the journey, I think, of life to where we learn and to where we, you know, put validity into our purposes.

not just in a statement or even in individual results, but over the long haul. So, you know, the short answer, I would say Chris to that is, you know, I've had to try to discover what is true in my life for me and in the world along the way. And I'm constantly questioning that and constantly asking that. And, you know, I believe that, you know, God has created everything with intentionality, that he's given us the ability to understand purpose and truth. Doesn't mean I fully comprehend it all the time.

in every situation and every scenario and that's a learning process. That's a discovery process. And you know, for me to touch on that last part for your question is, what I believe is true about purpose in life is not focused on an individual. Based on what God says creation is about is about us as a group of people, a group of God's creation, and so everybody's individual purpose is always intended to be fit with other people's purpose.

Chris Kiefer (16:39.351)

Yeah.

Blake Whiteman (17:02.02)

It's not just a me, it's a we life is what I would say. And so I understand that my life impacts others, positively and negatively. And what I believe is that the way I live and the way I act and the way I love and what I do with my abilities and my resources and my time, hopefully, and what I believe is true is to be given for others. And I learn to live in such a way that is for other people.

and that is a process. So yeah.

Chris Kiefer (17:36.266)

I would say the, or I want, I want to ask a follow up to how would you say, cause this is something that's been on my mind a lot is the relationship between being present and purpose. It's kind of a, uh, open ended one, but that's something that I, that was, I would say that was the primary focus of my, uh, talk was in, in like just

talking about how critical it is to really be present throughout our life.

Blake Whiteman (18:06.648)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's really good. One of the things that I've observed from, you know, Jesus in the Bible and what God gives us an example of in the Bible is all the time God is functioning with intentionality and with an end in mind and with a purpose. And a lot of the times what we'll talk about within our team and in our church is that, you know, God's greatest

commandment for us, right, is to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength and love other people as ourselves. And the way in which we accomplish that is by intentionally being invested and involved in the lives of other people with an end result in mind. And so we would say that if it's if it's not intentional, then it's not reproducible. Right? And so intentionality requires presence in the moment.

Chris Kiefer (18:55.074)

Say that again, if it's not intentional, it's not reproducible.

Blake Whiteman (18:58.676)

Correct. It's not intentional. It's not reproducible. And so one of the things we believe as a church is that we are to go out and fulfill the Great Commission, which is to make disciples of all nations, right? To baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And that we're going to go to the ends of the earth. We're going to teach people to obey everything that Jesus has commanded. And disciple making is reproducible, generation to generation, family to family, year to year. And in order for it to be reproducible or repeated,

and this comes from the Bible, but it's also a healthy and effective business parenting, you name it, model. Reproducibility, in order for something to be repeated, can only be done when those that are teaching and leading are intentional about what they're doing. You can't lead on accident and then expect somebody to be able to pick it up and reproduce it. The goal is to say, hey, here's why.

Chris Kiefer (19:45.954)

Hmm. So you, you're saying, yeah, you might be able to accomplish something, but if it's going to be, if you're going to repeat it, you have to be very like intentional, even if it was like, I might've done something on accident, but if I'm going to teach it and I have to go back and be intentional to understand why did this happen to begin with and how would I break this down and so that I know why it happened. And then I can tell someone else how to do it. And that's intentional. Yeah.

Blake Whiteman (20:12.216)

Correct. Yeah, you have a mission, you have an end goal in mind, you have a purpose that you're striving for, and if you are in a position of leadership, right, or, you know, for some of the language we use is if you're the disciple maker, you're the one leading, you're the one being that model, you're the one inviting, showing the way, if you will, acting in intentionality is the way in which that can be received and reproduced. Why did you do what you do? Why are we saying what we're saying? Why did you make that decision?

Why are we taking these actions? And if the response to that is, I don't know, or I just, I'm guessing, or I wasn't even really paying attention, it's really hard for the person receiving that to understand it. And so, again, that principle, we believe, comes from the Bible to where God himself in the form of Jesus comes into humanity and says, hey, I've given you a blueprint. I've given you my guidance. I've given you my law. I've given you my word. You have it. You objectively understand it.

Chris Kiefer (20:52.477)

Mmm.

Blake Whiteman (21:08.112)

But now I'm going to live it out for you and with you so that then you can therefore do the same thing. And so the pursuit of purpose for our conversation today or to reach a desired end goal, to be someone that is an effective leader or to be a person that creates reproducibility, something that can be repeated, that requires intentionality. Gotta know why you're doing what you're doing. What are we not doing? What is the motivating factor behind that? What's the truth that is proving that?

Chris Kiefer (21:14.114)

Hmm.

Blake Whiteman (21:38.192)

And so it would be really hard to be intentional if you're not present, right? If there's no planning, if there's no answer for the hope that you have, if there's no, hey, here's our game plan, and you're just kinda like, hey, you know, I'm just gonna be, you know, Chris, you've played sports and basketball. It's like, hey, just give me the ball, we're gonna make it up as we go. And then somebody's watching you do that, and you're like, hey, go do the same thing. It's like, the same what? Like, just wing it, just like, be awesome and go for it. And some people will go, yeah, that's all it takes.

But oftentimes in my experience, people that operate that way are pretty self-focused and they're not others focused. They're not looking to lead the next person, to train and develop the next person. They just care about themselves. And they're like, I'll go out and be really good and I don't care if you understand or not. I don't care if you pick it up or not. Like you have to figure that out, bro. Like that's on you. I had to figure it out. You're going to have to figure it out. Right? So, you know, I think pursuing purpose, you know, leading or, you know, in our context of disciple making and reaching the world for Jesus.

Chris Kiefer (22:29.42)

Right.

Blake Whiteman (22:38.008)

requires intentionality and the goal is for it to be reproduced, to be understood, and to be repeated multiple times over.

Chris Kiefer (22:43.858)

Yeah. And so building on that, if I'm going to be intentional and be present in my pursuit of purpose, how would you, I'm going to add in another one of faith. How does that, well actually maybe before we talk about that, I would say, how would your like from defining purpose, like what are we talking about with purpose, define purpose.

or contrast it from spiritually what you might define as purpose versus maybe what someone or the world secularly would define as purpose.

Blake Whiteman (23:22.428)

good. So let's start with that one. Like I said, the definition of purpose. And you know, I think if you were to kind of merge those two questions together, I think a person's purpose, if they're trying to discover it themselves, ultimately, I believe, comes from the worldview that they have. What do they believe is true about life and about themselves and about others? And you know, that's going to always

in my opinion, set the stage to answer that question. If I believe, if I'm a person that believes that there's no purpose in creation, that I'm here on accident, that I don't have any intrinsic value, or whatever I believe about life, including myself, that's always going to define what my purpose is, right? And so I believe that purpose is defined based on your worldview, worldview meaning what do you believe about life and yourself?

And so for me, I tried to define my purpose and discover my purpose as a young person growing up with a belief that was not in God and was not in any sort of inherent life purpose. It was, we're all just here. I'm one of however many billion people that there ever have been. The earth is what it is. There's really no intrinsic value or design or purpose in it.

Therefore, my purpose can be whatever I want it to be. And I don't really care if that impacts anybody else or not. In fact, it doesn't really matter what I do or what I don't do because I may be dead tomorrow and nobody cares and it doesn't matter. And so it's kind of a hopeless, like I'm just gonna try to seek whatever I want now as long as I'm gonna be here. I don't really know what that's gonna be. So for me, the answer to the Kershian Web...

the question of what purpose is, is always going to be preceded by what do I believe is true about life and about myself. So for me, my purpose comes from what I believe God says everyone's purpose is. And you know, to keep the story short, like, I believe that there is a God, the God of the Bible is true, and that all there is in creation, all of the world, all the universe, everything that there is, including people, you and I and every person that's ever been.

Blake Whiteman (25:42.088)

has been created with intentionality, on purpose, with a value, with identity, and a God given purpose for every person for all time. I believe that that's true. I believe that the Bible explains that and that life is about trying to discover and embrace and live that out. Trusting it, believing that it's true or not, matching up our life experiences with what a blueprint, I believe if you would call the Bible, that says is true.

And just because there's a blueprint that says it's true, I may not experience it, I may not feel it, I may not trust it, I may not believe it. That's the journey and the story of life. So I believe that my purpose, along with every other person's purpose, is that we are created in the image of God, that God is intrinsic in His creation, He hasn't left it, He's a part of it, that we're fearfully, wonderfully made with the image of God in every single person. Every single person is made with intentionality. And that our purpose in life...

is to live out the giftedness and the design and the uniqueness and the abilities along with the brokenness and struggles that we all have to help point to the fact that this isn't an accident that no individual human is ever an accident but has been made with purpose and intentionality and to discover what that story is that each person has that God has made in them I believe that that's discovered in being you know in living out what the Bible says which is a long conversation right but

Chris Kiefer (27:07.028)

Yeah.

Blake Whiteman (27:07.556)

It's always others focused. There's always a way in which it's described. But for me, purpose starts with what God says purpose is. And that's where I have chosen to find it.

Chris Kiefer (27:17.77)

I have a question about urgency. Like, uh, the, I don't know, I guess I would say it's, it's interesting that a, it, most people at, in their younger years, uh, the, the timeframe or the container of life, uh, is less, you know, looming. So there's more freedom to kind of like, wow, I'll sort all that spiritual stuff out when I'm

Blake Whiteman (27:20.552)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (27:47.646)

you know, when I'm older and right now it's like, I'm gonna live forever, you know, that's a, or I just am not aware or thinking of that. And I had heard this a long time ago and I stumbled across it recently. And if you, you know, obviously C.S. Lewis, you've probably heard of, the book Screwtape Letters. Have you read Screwtape Letters?

Blake Whiteman (28:09.308)

It's been a while, but yeah, I have.

Chris Kiefer (28:11.114)

So it's a dialogue between Satan and the other devils and there's many different letters back and forth that these devils are having. But there's this one that is, I've just been thinking about it a lot lately. Satan says, how can we best attack humans? And the first devil has an idea. He says, what if we tell him there's no heaven? And then there's no reward for doing the good thing or being, you know.

a nice person and Satan's like, no, that's not going to work. Next devil says, what if we tell him there's no hell? So there's no consequence. So you could do whatever you want because like we're all going to heaven. Like don't worry about hell. It doesn't exist. Satan says, no, that's not going to work. And the third one says, what if we tell him there's no hurry? And Satan says, yeah, that's the one. That's what we're going to do. And I feel like.

Yeah, just the I've been thinking about it more and more. It's just like, and I feel like everybody that you talk to that's in their later years feels the pressure and the urgency of just like, oh man, you know, I'm a quarter of the way through my life. I'm a third of the way through my life. I'm halfway through my life. And you know, and we don't know when our like, how far we are. It's just that idea of like, I'll live to 80, 90 ish or something.

Blake Whiteman (29:20.4)

What are we doing?

Blake Whiteman (29:32.596)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (29:33.022)

and then you have people in your life that don't and they die when they're 50. It's like hmm you know so I don't I think that the uh it's interesting that the uh container and the brevity of life is what I would say fuels the desire to pursue or to understand life more deeply or to figure out your reason for existence at all you know.

Blake Whiteman (29:36.892)

Yep. Yeah.

Blake Whiteman (30:00.96)

Yeah, you know, yeah, I think with age that happens. This interesting concept though. So let me throw this at you. I believe that all people, we are created eternally. That's part of what the Bible teaches is that we are eternal beings in creation. We are created to live forever, right? And you know sometimes we cannot actually understand that or people haven't been taught that or they don't learn that.

And what happens is as a result, we believe in the decisions we make in the life that we live is actually what you said, to where it's like, this is all there is and all there ever will be. Therefore, right, that's my worldview. If I believe that, then yeah, I've got a limited amount of time, which is going to drive the decisions that I make and the things that I do and the things that I don't do. And you know, I think that there is a reality that many people choose to deny, which is the reality of mortality. Right?

And so there is a life that we live and some, some are extremely short and some are longer than others. And so there's always this lingering concept out there, which is like, man, am I going to be here tomorrow? Right. And if you've, if you've lived more than a handful of years, you know, most people, uh, experience loss, whether it's close. Right. And I know, you know, you've shared your story before and, you know, when we experience loss, that has the ability to kind of help us question what is true, reevaluate what's my purpose.

much control am I in? But I would say this, I believe that in creation God has created all people to live eternally, and the question is what does that mean? Because clearly we don't live forever here, in this place and in this context, you know, but that is part of the story at least that's taught in the Bible of eternity is, you know, when does that start? And this idea of heaven and hell, and there's so many different versions of that, and so many different ways to talk about it, and so many different ways to teach it.

One of the versions that is prevalent is, yeah, you better hurry up. Better hurry up and get it figured out because you don't know when it's gonna end. And that's one way to have the conversation. And I think people tend to have conversations whether it's their belief of their life or their business or their family or their identity. And oftentimes people will operate out of a motivation of fear or FOMO or historical failure. And it's, oh, I better and I have to and.

Blake Whiteman (32:22.46)

You know, for me, talking about purpose with you today, you know, one of the most important things that I've learned and embraced to have my faith and trust in is what God describes in Genesis in the beginning of the Bible of the purpose of creation and what is actually true about you and I. And what God says in the Bible is that He created everything and it was good. And most people don't believe that that's true. Most people don't believe that life is good. Most people don't believe that they're good, that they're created with purpose. And so...

Chris Kiefer (32:42.819)

Hmm.

Blake Whiteman (32:49.904)

You know, I'd throw this out there even for your community, Chris. Like, I think therefore a lot of people have to try to earn it and discover it and build it and create it themselves, because they feel like they don't already have it. And so I believe that what God says in Genesis is that God created the heavens and the earth and everything in it and every part of it. And He said it was good. And He said that people are good. They're made in His image. Now, we don't always make good decisions.

Chris Kiefer (33:02.136)

Mmm.

Blake Whiteman (33:14.608)

And you don't have to tell you that. Everybody on the planet knows that, right? And we don't make good decisions all the time. And oftentimes our decisions are not only detrimental for us, but they are impactful and negative on other people. But our decisions don't define us. What we produce, I believe doesn't define us. What God says is true about us is what should define us. That's where our identity comes from. Our purpose comes out of what God says our identity is, not what we earn and make it to be.

Chris Kiefer (33:17.421)

Right.

Blake Whiteman (33:42.064)

And if you read the rest of the Bible, you're going to see that there's this story over and over and over again, from Genesis until Revelation at the end, is that this cycle happens in the lifestyle, in the lifetime of people, individual people and generations of people, to where they forget, or they don't have faith or belief, which is what we talked about a couple minutes ago, that what God says is true about them. And so their life becomes earning it, and building it, and proving it, and proving it to themselves, or...

the results of their hands is what they believe their life is about. Which is what God tells us the story is when people are in Egypt and they're in slavery. It's that they start to believe that their only value and their only worth and their only identity is what they produce. More bricks, more bricks, less straw, right? You don't have a purpose, you don't have value, all you do is work and it's not gonna amount to anything so you might as well do more, be more, make more, and then we all do that.

Chris Kiefer (34:15.704)

Hmm.

Blake Whiteman (34:40.54)

And then the reality of life is, well, when you're done, I'll just find somebody that does it better, or makes more, that I can pay less, and I'm gonna kick you to the curb and you're worthless. And that's the story of humanity. And so when we believe that, or we choose to embrace what the Bible says is true, is that I'm actually okay. I'm actually okay. Like I'm loved, God loves me, and I don't have to earn it, and I don't have to prove it. Then we get to operate out of a position of love, and hope, and desire, and faith, and trust, rather than...

Chris Kiefer (34:44.706)

Hmm.

Chris Kiefer (34:49.073)

Mm.

Blake Whiteman (35:09.428)

I have to earn it and I have to build it. And we all know if we were really gonna admit it, that's a miserable business that never is enough. It's insatiable, it's never gonna end. And so I know that there's kind of a lot there, but I think that when you talk about urgency, the only urgency that I have as a person is just the opportunity. And so the urgency is to show that there's opportunity for people to be invited into discovering what's true and what their purpose is.

Chris Kiefer (35:17.406)

Mmm. Yep.

Blake Whiteman (35:38.296)

I just get to offer invitations. I can't control anybody, you know, so.

Chris Kiefer (35:40.19)

Yeah. And I, yeah, for me, for me, when I say urgency, it's like, I zoom ahead to like, OK, so I'm going to die. Let's say I am dying in this moment. Like I've got, you know, hours, days, whatever, a month, a year to live. It's like you immediately are like, oh, of course, that house doesn't matter. Like what like what am I? Of course. Like, why am I not, you know, spending time with my kids?

Blake Whiteman (35:50.909)

Mm-hmm.

Blake Whiteman (35:57.745)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (36:09.57)

you know, why am I not going over to see my friend right now or whatever, it's just like immediately you're just the, everything when you realize like, to me, like when you think that life is endless.

Blake Whiteman (36:09.651)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (36:24.854)

That's when you're like, oh, I'll go get the, I'll push harder, I'll get more money now, I'll go do this, like I'm distracted and I'm dreaming about what's coming. It's like you're missing the point, you need to be present right here, right now, because this might be the last time that you do that or the last time that you do that and you don't even know it, you know? Yeah.

Blake Whiteman (36:36.682)

Mm-hmm.

Blake Whiteman (36:41.661)

Yes.

Blake Whiteman (36:47.784)

Yeah, well, I think you're totally right, man. And before we jump ahead on that, you know, again, most people will choose in their lifetime to just ignore what you just shared and go, you know what, there's nothing I can do about that and it is what it is. And when my time's up, my time's up, but I don't want to think about that. You know, a lot of people are like, I don't want to have the conversation about death. I don't want to talk about that. I don't like that. It makes me feel uncomfortable. There is no answer. So I'm just going to ignore it.

Chris Kiefer (37:11.306)

Yeah.

Blake Whiteman (37:17.648)

Right? Which then again, circling back to worldview, if I don't believe that there's anything after this, if I don't believe that there's any purpose with what I have currently right now, well then who cares? I might as well get what I can get now and hopefully have more and live it up, right? Live, love, laugh, get more and let's roll. And then when it's over, it's over. And then I guess I'll think about that later, you know? But like you just shared, when you get a scare, when you don't feel well, when you witness other people, you know, that are near you or not, that their life ends.

Chris Kiefer (37:36.682)

Yep.

Blake Whiteman (37:46.936)

It makes you think a little bit. Go, what do I care about most? Does that change my purpose? And do I make changes or not?

Chris Kiefer (37:56.002)

Definitely. All right, so speaking of being in the moment, today is my daughter's birthday, and I am picking her up from school so we can go on a fancy date, which I'm super excited about. She's six, so she's like, it's gonna be a core memory. Ha ha ha.

Blake Whiteman (38:07.047)

That's good.

Blake Whiteman (38:12.364)

Oh yeah, do it man, that's the right priority right there.

Chris Kiefer (38:15.706)

So last questions, these are gonna be rapid fire. I ask everybody, and I didn't give you a heads up. Normally I'd tell people at the beginning, I forgot to do that, but three book recommendations and favorite movie so you can rattle off. They can be about anything. They could be about, you know, sure, yeah.

Blake Whiteman (38:26.184)

Okay. Ooh. Can I go in any...

Any order? Can I go on any order? Can I do the movie first? Okay, one of my favorite movies is the movie Man on Fire. And, yes, do I get to tell you why? Okay, summary, right, the rapid fire. That movie to me is a perfect depiction of a person that has lived a life and made decisions that have been very hard, but comes to terms with the fact that they are broken and that they struggle.

Chris Kiefer (38:40.246)

That's Denzel, right?

Yeah.

Blake Whiteman (39:01.832)

But in that movie, he makes a decision to live a selfless life and to sacrifice himself for somebody else. And what I love about that movie is the main character is not perfect, very much struggles every day to the point of wanting to even... He's the bodyguard, yeah. And, you know, he struggles, you can tell, with depression and suicidal thoughts and alcoholism and a past and...

Chris Kiefer (39:19.562)

He's the bodyguard, right, for the... Yeah, yeah, it's a good movie.

Blake Whiteman (39:29.392)

you know, horrendous things that he had done that he has to make a decision on what is he going to do with it. And what I love about that is, is through a very difficult decision, he makes a decision that he's going to become selfless and the fact that he gives himself away for somebody else. And I love it. And it's not clean and it's not simple and it's not like, but it's real. And I just see that there's so much truth in life about that is that we all have a story and a journey and they're not all perfect and we can let it define us and we can quit.

Chris Kiefer (39:44.088)

Mm.

Blake Whiteman (39:58.948)

or we can make a decision even if it's later just to become selfless and give ourselves away for somebody else. So it's one of my favorites. Yep. It's really good. Three books. One of the books I love, which we actually kind of reread and watched is Unbroken. So the Louise Amparini story. It's pretty fun. Pretty crazy story, but love that. There's some sports in there.

Chris Kiefer (40:05.104)

Awesome.

Chris Kiefer (40:19.874)

Is that the same as the movie about the Olympics? Yeah, okay.

Blake Whiteman (40:22.756)

Same as the movie, the book is definitely better. Yeah, I think the book is awesome. Just an incredible story of triumph and again, struggle and overcoming and faith and a little bit of sports, I like that. So that's good. Definitely love that one. Let me give you the not fair, but a fourth edition. So, you know, the Bible's a good book. I put that one up there. It's a good one at least, I think.

Chris Kiefer (40:50.382)

by various authors. Yeah.

Blake Whiteman (40:51.696)

by multiple offers, yes, over a history of many times. So I would put that one in there, which is really good. Let's see, ooh, this is tough. This is tough. Hmm. Another book I really enjoyed, and I'm trying to think of recent ones that I've read that are not all churchy books, because those aren't always fun sometimes. Let's see, two more. Hmm.

Chris Kiefer (41:20.906)

I would say you got one more, though we'll take the Bible. Yeah, unless you have to, but...

Blake Whiteman (41:22.32)

I got one more? Are you gonna give me one more? Okay. Well, I do, but I also have like 200. So it's tough. This top three list is challenging.

Chris Kiefer (41:35.346)

And it's not necessarily Blake's top three. It's just three book recommendations.

Blake Whiteman (41:38.404)

Yeah, yeah. Okay, one other book recommendation I would say is a leadership book called Developing Leaders Around You. It's a good text that I read before. It's a Maxwell book. Developing leaders around you, yes. So we'll go with those three.

Chris Kiefer (41:53.462)

developing leaders around you.

Chris Kiefer (42:00.33)

Awesome. Well, if someone wants to get in touch or chat or whatever, what is your preferred method that they do that? How do people find you in the world?

Blake Whiteman (42:11.546)

I am a very poor but present social media person. So I do have a Facebook page, just blake.witeman. blake.witeman at Instagram is something that I check. And then honestly, we've got our reallifeministries.com quarter lane campus website is a very simple way to get ahold of me. We got an email address on there. You can find everything on that website.

Chris Kiefer (42:35.126)

Perfect. Sounds good. Well, thanks so much, Blake. You can let all the people at the gym know that I'm alive and well. I may be back, but I've been doing some more meditative, low intensity workouts.

Blake Whiteman (42:46.289)

Alright.

Chris Kiefer (42:53.862)

Which is actually another thing that the endocrinologist today said. One of the things I had was low testosterone. And he said, honestly, because you've got kids and all this stuff, you probably are just working too hard. Like you probably just working out too often. And I was like, he's like, I think your testosterone will come back up if you just stop killing yourself. And I was like, OK, so we're trying that for a little bit.

Blake Whiteman (43:14.052)

Interesting. I will let them know that you're good, man. And I'll be thinking about you, bro, and praying for you. And on that note, there's another interesting truth is that we're designed to operate out of rest. And routine rest is important, bud. So get some and man, have an awesome core memory date with your daughter and happy birthday to her today. You bet. All right, buddy.

Chris Kiefer (43:28.823)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (43:37.974)

Thank you very much. We'll talk to you soon.