Unlock Financial Wisdom with Humor

Chris Kiefer (00:01.323)

Welcome back to another episode of the Pursuit of Purpose. My name is Chris Kiefer, and today I am here with Garrett Gunderson, who is a New York Times bestselling author. And he is here, he's a comedian. Hopefully he'll probably make fun of me right now for making a mistake on his intro, but I'm super excited to chat with him. I ran into Garrett at a SaaS Academy event that Dan Martel ran down in Austin, Texas a few months ago, and he gave an unbelievable

keynote that I was like, I want to talk to this guy more. So first of all, thank you so much for coming on, Garrett.

garrett (00:36.354)

Thanks for having me. That was fun to do SAS Academy. That keynote's a little different than most keynotes, right?

Chris Kiefer (00:41.855)

Oh, totally. I was, that's, I wanted to start with your, uh, my impression when you came out was, it was like, okay, this is a script. It's like a performance or a play. And then you, I just got sucked in and you obviously have put in a ton of time. Like Dan Martell is completely opposite, right? He just comes on and just goes off whatever he wants to talk about. But you had a mission of what you're trying to get across in that. I don't even know how long it was. It felt like it was 10 minutes. Um,

But that was, I mean.

garrett (01:11.658)

I'll take that as a compliment. It was just over an hour. So that's great. That's, that's the goal is to make it just feel like, you know.

Chris Kiefer (01:14.943)

Yeah, but that's yeah, it just and there's humor and everything. So yeah, tell me how did you settle on that? Because I don't think that's a common or I don't know. Your approach is very unique.

garrett (01:28.254)

Look, I spoke at MIT years ago for this thing called Gathering of the Titans. And I'm on the bus to go to Gathering of the Titans. And it's with other speakers. And this guy sitting next to me, his name is Bo Eason. And I'm like, what are you speaking on? He goes, I'm doing a one-man show. And in my head, I was like, what the hell is that? Like I didn't, I didn't understand. But then when he performed, I was like, wow, like it just blew everyone away. And so I hadn't come to one of my events and, you know, didn't think a whole lot more about it until one night I had this dream. And when I'm in the dream, I like, there's a tall, like

person almost looked like it could have been me, I guess. It was an all dressed in black performing with lights to the side, so it felt a little Broadway-esque. And then all of a sudden I was the person on stage. And then all of a sudden I was the person in the crowd. I woke up, I'm like, I'm gonna do a one-man show. That's how I'm gonna teach people about money in a totally different way. And so I told my wife, I'm like, I'm gonna do a one-man show. She's like, what's that? And I told her, she's like, cool, that sounds great. So I called, got a director called Bo, got, you know, his director became my acting coach, his movement.

guy became my movement guy, I got a screenwriter, you know, just started. Yeah. Like there's a guy, Jean-Louis, he wrote Back to the Body. It's a great book. And he works with a lot of people in Hollywood on, like he worked with Austin Butler in the movie Elvis. So like, you know, like how you move on stage and how you let your hands tell a story and how you, how you are selected, your movements so that it's more received by the crowd. So yeah, like.

Chris Kiefer (02:30.476)

Same movement guy.

Chris Kiefer (02:46.519)

Oh wow, that's awesome.

garrett (02:53.186)

just put together the team, man, and then went to work on it. I put more time into that than all my other speeches combined, I'm pretty sure. I mean, it's something that I love to do. And I've added a new dimension since you've seen me, where it's now musically scored. So there's a musical score that goes with it. So imagine like those moments. I mean, there's times where the music score isn't happening just like you'd have in a movie where there's just, you know, the word grew enough, but there's other times where there's just a little subtle score. There's other times where there's a little bigger.

Chris Kiefer (03:08.475)

through the whole time.

Chris Kiefer (03:14.607)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (03:18.827)

Yeah, just to add the emotion that that's what music does in movies. Yeah. That's awesome.

garrett (03:22.218)

Yep. So I hadn't really seen that with the keynote and I thought that would be a really cool thing to add to a keynote.

Chris Kiefer (03:27.983)

How often are you doing these keynotes?

garrett (03:30.782)

I want to do them twice a month. I'm not, but I want to do twice a month. I'm just barely launching my website that allows people to book this and understand it exists. I mean, I'm friends with Dan. That's how he knew. And it was like, yeah, we need to have you at SAS. And I'd spoken at SAS Academy, you know, during COVID on the virtual side. And I'd spoken at boardroom, their inner circle group. So he already knew. And I speak as empire builder. So he kind of knows me as a speaker. I've also spoken at other places just because they knew me as a speaker before.

And then I tell them about this, but it hasn't really, this is pretty new at putting it out there and being on stages with it. Probably only 10 times.

Chris Kiefer (04:05.647)

So, yeah, the other thing that I'm interested about is the comedy journey. So you have, if you wanna give like bullet points, you're an entrepreneur, you're now author, speaker, but comedy is something that you've been passionate about, I assume for a long time, but when was that like an inkling of like, oh, I should do this? And when did you actually first do a standup?

garrett (04:30.41)

Well, I knew I loved comedy when I was five, just because my family on both sides, my dad's side, my mom's side, they were just, my uncles are hilarious. My aunts have huge laughs. Like we always have these family parties and, and I started telling jokes when I went to college, like to my family. I mean, it might've been high school. These are inappropriate jokes that like every time either side of the family get around, everybody gather around and I tell the jokes and be the same jokes half the time and they're just laughing. And so I really had this like passion for it, but

I didn't really for sure decide I was going to do it until I went to Mastermind Talks as a speaker. You're familiar with Mastermind Talks and Jason Gynard. It's a really great event. I went as a speaker. He had me on as a speaker and I attended the event the whole time and he just had people write like themselves a letter about something that they really want to do but haven't done it. So I wrote, I'm going to do stand-up comedy. That was probably 2014. And then I did my first open mic in 2017, August, and it went really well. And these comedians were like, dude, we want to...

you should open for us. So I just started opening for them. And then when they filmed their special in 2019, I opened and there was a Hollywood agent there that said, dude, nobody's done this in finance. See, at that point, it was just a hobby. Like I knew it would make me a better speaker. I was having a lot of fun doing it. But then all of a sudden it was like, hmm, do I wanna do this? I took a few months to decide. And then I was like, yeah. And so April 15th of 2021, I filmed the comedy special called the American Reign using, you know, a bunch of money pieces in it.

that added dimensions of humor to a topic that most people don't know how to joke about. So it'll be coming out this year on the streaming services and I'm excited about it.

garrett (06:13.15)

It should record locally on my side and then record locally on your side with Riverside, right?

You were up and I'll just go back. Is it not recording at all?

garrett (06:29.162)

froze there for a minute and that probably froze to you for a minute.

garrett (06:40.462)

Please, have a seat.

garrett (06:45.518)

Okay.

Chris Kiefer (00:00.146)

about you did the special and then there never been done in money. I think that's what you just said. Never been done in finance.

garrett (00:10.625)

Okay, so, yeah, so I'm opening for my friends and then this manager's there, Hollywood manager, he's like, hey, nobody's ever really done what you've done in the world of finance.

with comedy, I think you've got what it takes. And so I started to work with them and ended up filming a comedy special April 15th of all days, 2021 called the American Dream. So using entertainment to educate, that one was like 90% entertainment, just a few vignettes that maybe get people to think differently. So they're not there thinking, ah, I'm learning. They're just there enjoying, and then hopefully, give them an insight here.

Chris Kiefer (00:47.878)

Yeah. So I, for when I was in high school, I have always like loved comedy and we did, we, I went to this, uh, camp, it was a leadership camp in the summer and they had a, you know, talent show every year. And I was scared out of my mind, but I loved comedy and I had like, you know, a little jokes I had written down, but I'd never done it before. And so I did it at this, this high school, you know, leadership camp, which is like the most welcoming environment that you could possibly.

do something that you're scared to do. Cause like everybody's like an all star and everyone's giving you a standing ovation, but it was in front of 300 kids and it was like awesome. And then two other times in high school at little open mic nights, I did little jokes. And then for some reason I haven't, you know, I mean, I am anytime I talk publicly, I remember when I was in high school and this is what I want to ask if you have any other comedians that you've looked up to, I remember hearing a story that Chris Farley,

gets got because he passed away, but got nervous before every single skit all through his entire career. And so part of his strategy was just making like doing something ridiculous right at the beginning. Usually with like tripping or stumbling or whatever to get everybody laughing. And that would make him like calm his nerves. Cause everyone would be laughing. And I also heard, um, uh, Seinfeld, uh, um,

What's why I can't think of his first name. Jerry Seinfeld said that when you are as a comedian and you make a room laugh, you have power over that room. Like just power framing and if there's someone in the room that is like a heckler that's like messing with you or says something, like if a comedian is not skilled, that heckler could take power away from the comedian and it can get really awkward. But when you get everybody in the room to laugh at that heckler.

garrett (02:17.569)

Sherry.

Chris Kiefer (02:45.994)

Now you maintain power. Does that make sense? Or have you had any experiences of that or either of those two things?

garrett (02:48.854)

Yeah.

garrett (02:54.217)

You know, the first time I was ever heckled was that I was roasting down Martell. And someone in the crowd said something and I didn't hear what they said, but I could tell like the nature of it was heckling. And I immediately turned to them. I said,

And he looked and he's like eating in his hands all over his food all over his hands. And I just go, Oh, let me guess you're single here by yourself. Are you? And like, I just like went in and they're like, he's going through a divorce. So I'm like, well, let me tell you who's fault this divorce is. Like I just went like after it. And then people are like, Oh, but when I was in Vegas early, early on, before I was like, can we consider myself a comedian? I was just had a buddy there that was doing a comedy set and he's like, dude, I can get you on. So I went on and there was three really drunk girls in the crowd and I didn't acknowledge it. I didn't like.

I messed with them, I didn't say anything, and it made the rest of the rhythm of that little, you know, four minute set off, and it wasn't great. So I just learned the lesson from that. I was like, oh, you just acknowledge what is, you deal with it, and I'm never worried about someone in the crowd heckling, because I'm gonna say the first thing that comes to mind, and then just determine if that's too mean, and I need to scale it back, but the first thing's always the funniest. So I just have no fear if someone decided to heckle. You know, I'd be like, great, let's go for it. I'm on the stage, I'm comfortable on stage, like.

Chris Kiefer (04:01.954)

Hmm.

garrett (04:06.085)

On stage feels like home to me. And I know the crowd's not there for the heckler, they're there for me. The funniest six minutes of comedy I ever did. I'm walking on stage and someone from the very back goes, you look like Jesus. And I just went off and it was so good and it went so well. And it was like, I ended up doing jokes I've never done since. I did know a bunch of jokes of I look like Jesus. So I had something that he didn't know was already in the back of my mind, but it gave me some freedom.

Man, I re-listened to that set a few months ago and it was like, it's hard to even hear me talking because of how loud the crowd is. And it also helps when you're in a boxy comedy club. Boxy comedy clubs are so good for laughter. Like, I love the comedy store down in La Jolla. I love wise guys up in Ogden, Utah. Like, there's just a few boxy clubs that I've done over and over again and headlined multiple times and had so much fun doing it.

Chris Kiefer (04:57.774)

Hmm. And so you now are you've taken the finance thing which is it's like Looks like for me. You've got the Finance like where does the comedy thing make sense? Where has the finance passion or the expertise for that and writing books and all that come from?

garrett (05:18.601)

You know, I love to write and that's not what I expected. I wrote my first book because I wanted to be cool. I wanted to, like, yeah, I heard people say stuff like, oh, I wish I had known this earlier. And so it motivated me to write the book that way. But I was like, oh, if I could write a book, that would be amazing. And it would help my business. And because I didn't really have a big vision for it other than to be cool and help my business, it took two years and I didn't get anywhere with it. And then I had my business partner that was gonna write it with me die.

And so when he died, like it changed my thinking around the book. It changed it from being like something more about me to something about, you know, me, him and the reader. And it really changed things, but I was still kind of scared to write. So I had a ghostwriter that became a co-author that helped out so much. But I mean, I just rewrote that book that I first wrote and it's going to come out in a couple of months as 2.0 and now it's 65,000 words instead of 99,000, which is hard to cut and trim.

So it's more about the reader, right? And I just rewrote, what would the Rockfellas do, my most popular book of all time. And I just finished writing Money Unmasked, which took me years and years that came out last year and I have no co-author on that. I write a blog at least every other week. I love the process of writing. It's like, it's exciting. I enjoy it. It allows me to be more articulate. It allows me to learn while I'm writing. It's directing my research. So it's more memorable of what I'm learning versus just reading passively. So I've just found a passion for the writing aspect, whether it's writing jokes.

or whether it's writing something in finance. I like all forms of writing. I mean, in some ways jokes are more fun at times and other times it's more fun to write for the ability to create a lesson for someone. And my next book that will come out will be using humor to teach finance. It's already in manuscript. I've already got an amazing editor on it. I just have a lot of other stuff on the plate right now before it comes out. But yeah, I just found that was something that's in my DNA that I didn't.

No was there because I was afraid of being scared to put myself out there. Am I a good writer? I look back to my first speech that I recorded, it was terrible. And now you watch me on that stage. I think I've got some good chops when I'm up there. Feel very confident what I'm doing. And it just comes with reps and also, you know, a context and a vision. That's something that I can dedicate myself to for decades because it's challenging and compelling and

garrett (07:40.725)

different and creative and that's how I feel about writing and performing.

Chris Kiefer (07:45.927)

Hmm. Um, if you were to, with the finance aspect of it, um, I was trying to think of this myself and I don't know if you have had anyone say, give you like for the, um, household names, I'm thinking of like, you have, uh, you know, Dave Ramsey and Ray Dalio and some other, I don't know if there's any other big finance people out there, but is there, is, are there like a, do you view yourself as like a mashup between this type of finance guy?

And then, you know, like the Jerry Seinfeld's and, uh, Nate Bargatze and like the, do you have like a perspective of like, yeah, I really like these guys and the finance stuff that I resonate with is over here, or do you feel like you're not in any of those boxes?

garrett (08:30.985)

I mean, I would definitely resonate a lot more with Ray Dalio than Dave Ramsey. Dave Ramsey would be like good fodder for me to make fun of. Like Dave Ramsey is the guide for the train wreck. Like you spend too much, follow Dave, but Dave makes a lot of money being a business owner, but

doesn't teach people to be business owners to the masses. He teaches, he's a lowest common denominator. Cut back, don't spend, reduce, eliminate, scrimp, save, sacrifice, defer, delay, get pissed, live off rice and beans. Like, I just don't resonate with that at all. Like it's so not who I am. And I think there's a place for him. And obviously there's a lot of people that get benefit from that, but eventually they get a ceiling that becomes problematic. Ray Dalio is one of the most brilliant money managers in the world. I think principally,

we're much more aligned, but I don't know how to manage money like Ray. I'm like a philosopher, I'm like a philosopher, philosophizer. I'm a philosopher of wealth and frameworks and what money is and the ideas behind it and the things that help people feel more empowered and remove their misinformation and address their myths and, and understand who they are and build that peace of mind and confidence. And so from a comedian standpoint, like

There's certain comedians that I love and I could watch all day. And most comedians that I don't watch a lot of, it's because I just kind of know their formula and it's very smooth and it's useful and it works for them. But I like the comedians that even if I know their formula, they're still hard to predict and they get me, or I don't know their formula at all and it's just so amazing to watch. But I don't know that I'm pretty...

Chris Kiefer (10:08.663)

Hmm.

garrett (10:13.545)

Like when I'm up on stage as a comedian, I'm really laid back. I just am up there comfortable leaning against the mic stand, telling stories, laughing. It's pretty much how I would be in everyday life for the most part, you know? So it's more relaxed than when I'm presenting. I get intense at times when I present and when I'm teaching finance. I get worked up and excited and like want people to like get it and get this huge amount of passion. So it's a very different year.

Um, so I don't know who I would compare myself to in the financial world or the comedian world. I know who I'm not. I know I'm not like, you know, I'm not like Jim, Jim Gaffigan's a really famous comedian that is. A formulaic, I'm going to give you a fat joke every minute. You know, it's like, it's just not my style. I like Dave Chappelle where I don't know where he's going. And like, he might just take a detour and tell a story for a while. Or Neil Brennan, who's just, uh, you know, really like has unique, different comedy specials that he does. Like those are kind of guys that.

really fascinate me that I could watch, or Sebastian Maniscalco, who's just so animated and all over the place. And even if I read his jokes, I might not laugh, but the way he delivers them, I think they're hilarious. So there's just so many great comedians out there that I watch, like Daniel Tosh, who could do Tosh show during COVID with no audience and not skip a beat, and then have his style when he's doing a podcast or doing comedy, and I laugh hysterically at it. So.

Chris Kiefer (11:20.238)

Hmm

garrett (11:35.637)

There's probably 20 comedians that if they were ever around in town, I'm going to do everything I can to be there. And then there's just a lot of really good ones that I probably don't know. But there's always something that I can learn. It's just that now that I've done a lot more comedy, I find some comedy a lot less appealing than I did before because I can see through the matrix.

Chris Kiefer (11:54.462)

Ah, interesting. And you are the, I want to go back to the writing thing. I don't know who said this, but I write to know what I think. Do you resonate with that?

garrett (12:03.385)

Oh, it helps for sure. I mean, I can, I can go so much deeper when I'm writing and be like, well, what's the next layer and what does that inform and where's that coming from? And it's like, it's so helpful. I mean, my blogs are pretty long. They're like 2,500 words. Most times, sometimes a little bit longer, sometimes a little bit less, but I'll just take a topic and I'm, I'm going into like asking the reader questions so it personalizes it. But I'm also asking myself those questions. And I'm talking about.

experiences and mistakes and, you know, metaphors. It's so helpful. If I write a blog and I, and I do a podcast that day, I can recall everything I wrote that day and usually go deeper than I've gone on that topic.

Chris Kiefer (12:44.878)

Hmm. And what do you like you come across when I met you in person and on seeing you on stage and even now you're saying like the I don't know if I'm this is the right word. I haven't like no fear What are you afraid of or what's the is there anything in your life that you're like? Hesitating or the like what's the what are the things that make you think twice or Do you have areas where you're still feeling like you hold back?

garrett (13:13.765)

Um, so I have some cysts on my kidneys and on my, in December, my blood work was really not great. So I definitely had some nights where I would like be thinking like, man, I hope I can get this back on track and that, you know, I didn't do too permanent damage and I had some fear around that. I'm I mean, I just got my blood work done. Um, cause that was December 23rd and then I just got it done like a month ago. It was, it was like 50% improved and.

I'm already feeling massively better because I just have great network of people. I'm willing to do the work. You know, I just has had a lot of stress last year. I divorced the business that I had sold and was doing a licensing deal with. That was a business. I found it and I unwound a partnership with a really close friend and it had me.

be a little bit like more cautious and concerned about mistakes and the cost of those mistakes and speaking up in the appropriate time and understanding the ramifications of losing relationships and filling that sting. And that's where some of that chronic stress came from. Now, but when I'm excited about the future like I am right now, when I'm excited about the projects I'm doing.

I don't really have a lot of fear. Like I'm willing to like double down, invest heavier in myself, you know, and I think that only during those times where there's uncertainty or unwinding or difficulty that takes time to process. That it's, I'm not thinking about growing myself every day. Like, but I'm always thinking like now is there a therapy I could do that helps me out or their relationships I could meet that can help me learn or grow or their courses I could take, like I'm just willing to really double down investing in myself. But.

There was three, four months there where I was just trying to heal from the wounds of some, you know, how I handled those things and the mistakes I had made and not seen and the ramifications of that were seven, multiple seven figures and, you know, and something that I had brought into the world on my own and then brought people into and now all of a sudden I'm not part of. So there are at least three or four times in my life where my confidence was...

garrett (15:12.417)

but it took a while to build, you know, 2008 and being overlevege in real estate, you know, going through mediation in 2014 to after a business acquisition and finding out that one of the people that came with it wasn't really engaged or doing work and wasn't going to be able to come along with it in a way that I wanted. And that was a, that was a tough time, but I got through that one really quick. Or then, you know, divorcing my company. I mean, selling a company in 2021 and then saying, you can't tell anyone I'm involved in any way, shape or form because I don't like what's going on or where you're going. So that was

That was, you know, there's those few times like that. But when you look at that versus being 25 years in the financial business, pretty small amount of time where I would, you know, not just be excited, optimistic, charging forward, you know, feeling great. But I'll tell you what, those three months felt like an eternity. I was like, I can't believe like I was turning towards pessimism at moments. I was frustrated and angry and not sleeping and bitter.

and upset with myself and judging myself and in comparison, things that I hadn't really experienced to that degree in my life. So it was helpful and on the other side of it, I realized why I needed to do it and it created so much space and possibility, but damn it was hard, you know, it just was hard.

Chris Kiefer (16:26.634)

Hmm. So, um, you, yeah, that's, there's a lot of stuff there. The, what would you say is the, what is like the, when you say you're excited about the future and I guess I'll give some context. This is something that's been on my mind lately. My grandpa's 96 and I've been interviewing him weekly for like the last six months and talking to someone that's almost a century old and they're like what they did back then

garrett (16:43.009)

Chris Kiefer (16:53.094)

And also I found it interesting that someone that's so close to death, like, but doesn't know when he's healthy. He's still like, but clearly like he's not living another 20 years for sure. You know? Uh, and probably like statistically, like he could, something crazy could happen and your body just, you know, some, something could go wrong. Right. And he has had like the most simple life ever. He's lived alone since his wife died 30 years ago.

and he's not in a nursing home yet. And he just lives out in this small like outskirts of town. But I guess what I'm curious about is his generation of people, I asked him like, what dreams did you have? Or like, what did you and grandma talk about wanting to accomplish? And it was like, I was asking him, you know, out of some ridiculously hard scientific question, he'd be like, why would I even consider that? You know?

He wasn't even like, he had no, there was no aspiration. There was no nothing. He, he only got internet six months ago when I put a Starlink into his house so I could record the conversations. And it's like, it's just a different world. And I feel like in our world, everything is goal oriented, like make a vision, achieve this, accomplish this, get this thing. And I'm looking at people that are very in that world versus someone like my grandpa who

is just like oblivious. It's almost like, I don't know. So I'm curious with all the stuff and the research and stuff you've done when it comes to money and like living life well, how do you contrast that with someone that is in his situation? Does that make sense?

garrett (18:41.629)

Well, what's nice is wealth is perspective. And we get to define what wealth is. And in some ways, maybe the way that he views it is just, you know, just fine for who he is and maybe in some ways people that think they've got to have everything that there is never find contentment and peace. So it's, you know, I can't really judge it just to pay based upon pat, like outside perspective.

of where someone lives, the things that they do, because I just think we all have such different preferences. You know, like, I know I've had to like really go through a discovery of like what really fulfills me and what doesn't fulfill me. And what society would tell me is fulfilling isn't all that fulfilling to me. Like, I like to write. I write a blog. I don't even know how many people read it. Like it's not, I don't write it because it's, I think it's going to be the biggest thing that I do. You know, I don't have the metrics there that I have on my YouTube channel, but I like it more.

And so I'm just choosing to do it for myself. Now I got into a financial position where I can do that and make that choice. But I think sometimes we're pulled so much for recognition and awards and societal status and people respect people that have done extraordinary things. But sometimes those extraordinary things come with extraordinary costs. You know, it's like, look at the people's lives that are some of the greatest athletes in the world. And you'll find a lot of broken hearts all around them because they're not around.

because they're not very available and they don't really know how to operate in everyday society. And when time, when the lights go out at the, you know, wherever they play, all of a sudden, they don't know what to do next and it can become a very disenchanting place to be. So I think we always have to continually reinvent what our future looks like, be excited about it, but most importantly, design a game that we want to play along the way. And what does play look like to you? What does play look like to me? Might be very different, but society wants us to think it's all about private jets.

and Bentley's and mansions and, you know, uh, fake boobs and all that kind of stuff, right? There's like an appearance that's put out there, but the reality is it's those special moments we have with the people that we care about the most. And, you know, being adored by the people that we adore, not just by fans that we've never met. It's so damn tempting. It's so alluring. And so, yeah, someone can have an extraordinary vision, but also big vision requires big responsibility that could be really difficult along the way.

garrett (21:00.609)

And that's where you see a lot of entrepreneurs without their spouse anymore, or not getting a lot of time with their kids, or feeling a ton of regret. So I couldn't be the kind of guy that sat out in the woods all the time, but I do have a cabin that I like to go and write, but then I like to come back to society and I like to go out and do things. I like to go to, you know, comedy and concerts, and I like to, you know, travel, and I like to see the world. I like the big cities. We were just in New York. I love to see something like that was created. We're going to London. Like, I like that, but that's me.

So wealth is merely a byproduct of life well lived. Who defines a life well lived? That's the eye of the beholder. It's the people that are in the most pain that are trying to live up to someone else's standard of wealth, not their own. Because then they're always in pretense and they're always trying to perform instead of enjoy and be present. And it's a tough game. It's something I'm working on all the time.

Chris Kiefer (21:49.622)

Do that's, you just said something that I remember in your book. And I remember seeing it on the side of the basically wealth or wealth follow or money follows value. Right. How do you, how do you determine or like, what's your advice to someone that's trying to create? Cause that, that would be like, don't, don't chase money or chase like the game that is valuable to you and then trust that the money will come. Or am I saying that?

garrett (22:01.055)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (22:19.674)

similar or close to how you would say that.

garrett (22:20.821)

Yeah, I mean, sometimes it might take a little bit more time, you know, because value requires systems often. It requires reach or it requires impact. And sometimes we are developing the skills to build that value, but we don't have the network to build the value yet, or we're not known enough yet. So it does take some time and some patience. Um, but

If we become value creators and we're just abundant and we're consistently looking at how we can add value and serve people and solve problems, what you're going to find is value is going to follow. Value is going to find you. People are going to want to be around you. It's the people that are most miserable and in victimhood and blaming that don't really find that they're value creator, they become value extractors. So they become consumers of value and that becomes very exhausting. And then they wonder why they're not lucky or they wonder why someone else is doing better than them. It's because they're living by a scarcity paradigm and those rules don't lend towards.

exchange and it's exchange that creates wealth for us. So what's going to allow you to exchange with others? Like I think that even the notion of retirement gets people to stop thinking about value creation because they're planning for bankrupting their value creation world. They're like, okay, I'm going to stop creating value one day. Why? Now, maybe they're like, no, value creation for them is their family then, but why not have that along the way and still stay a bit engaged? Why not stop burning yourself out so that you feel like you have to retire?

Like retirement came from an industrial age where people worked tirelessly and with physical demands that destroyed their body. And most people that are still in that world, then I guess retirement still in the viable option. But what about people that are using their minds like you and I? Like, why would I retire? The older I get, the more wise I typically become and the more reach I might even have and the more systems that I've learned and the more relationships I've impacted. And so why would I stop that and unwind it? Cause for me at that point, it would be.

kind of sad, kind of frustrating.

Chris Kiefer (24:09.058)

Especially if you're enjoying and you've got a balanced approach to it, right? Like you're mixing in your vacations and your leisure with the work, not like grind for 20, 30, 40 years and then just like exhaust, just pass out.

garrett (24:19.733)

Yep.

garrett (24:26.281)

Right.

Chris Kiefer (24:28.943)

You also have a book for kids if I did some research. Tell me about that, because we have a six, four, two, and six month old. And it sounds like this book is great for my six year old and soon to be four. Yeah.

garrett (24:38.689)

Good. Good answer for this book.

garrett (24:43.813)

Maybe even the four year old, yeah, those two. I am money, I don't go on trees. And it's money is the character. So that's the character. And it's like great conversations, great questions. It's about building their gifts and treating themselves as their greatest asset and earning and spending and saving and giving. And the really basics and fundamentals, even teaching them what credit cards are. And it's like their credit card codes. And sometimes if money doesn't pay attention to them, it spends money you don't have and makes them feel bad.

Makes me feel good temporarily, but like, so it's, it's pretty, it's pretty fun. It's a little guinea pig in it. That it's kind of the companion to Money and these other little characters and Julia Cook, my co-author just knows how to speak kid and she's super brilliant. So it's quite, quite phenomenal. I am Money and I don't grow on trees.

Chris Kiefer (25:25.707)

And what's the title of that?

Chris Kiefer (25:29.754)

And when is that coming out? Oh, it's out now.

garrett (25:31.297)

It's out. You can grab it right now. Yep. Yeah, the paperback is just coming out because Barnes & Noble wanted to get it in all the schools. But yeah, it's been on a hard cover since January 2nd.

Chris Kiefer (25:41.27)

That's awesome. Yeah, what else is, we got maybe 10 minutes or so, what else is on your mind these days, or what are you most passionate about or telling people about?

garrett (25:54.473)

I'm building this community called the producer community, which is helping people to grow their, you know, grow their income, keep the money they make, grow their money, and then grow themselves. And so it's a weekly education series that I do and then a community that's behind it. So I'm building that I'm writing the content on a daily basis. I'm building out that the producers manual that's phenomenal with little like implementation guides that will be there every week so that people could really get the financial house in order.

We've been working for 25 years building a financial network so that we have a network of people from accountants and attorneys and investment advisors that could come in and support the implementation of what we do. I'm really fired up about it, man. I haven't been this excited. And that whole grow yourself, we're gonna integrate elements of health because there's a concept really of genetic wealth, which is the habits that we pass on to our future generation of the food and understanding epigenetics that.

Yes, we have the genes that we were given, but we can also express those genes based upon our behaviors and ideas. And we're just dealing with a lot of stuff like chronic stress and the toxins in the environment and overly processed food. And so it requires a new level of intention and attention to get people to be healthy. So that, you know, look at how many women are having a hard time getting pregnant because there's issues with progesterone. There's chemicals that they're in their body now, you know, from, from too much exposure to whatever's in the air. And ultimately.

I think that families that are healthy don't decimate the family wealth. They get to spend time outside of the hospital. They get to talk about, they get to feel better about themselves and have more energy along the way. So this is the first time I'm really integrating that kind of stuff in a program that I'm working on. And for 25 years, half of our clients were in the health space, functional medicine, every type of kind of health professional from nutritionists and

you know, some of the big thought leaders. So I can aggregate some of that and kind of help people navigate that world. And our goal is to make it really affordable for just about anyone to understand where that from a health standpoint, because if you're Uber wealthy, I know financial firms that they do health workups that are $40,000 workups on their, on their clients. And they send tests to Germany and they send tests to wherever it is. That's the very, very best in the world. So they can take care of their client in a way that they can continue to produce at this really high level. Well,

garrett (28:15.357)

The good news is when something starts at the wealthy, a lot of times it'll trickle down and I kind of did that with this family office concept when I first started in finance in 98. I went and saw a year or two later a family office where it was one group of individuals under one roof analyzing a transaction for a client, attorney's accounts and everything. I was like, I need to bring this to more of the masses, to the entrepreneur that's not worth tens of millions of dollars because that one was a firm that had a low barrier to it.

low barrier to entry at 30 million, which is a pretty high barrier for most people. So I did a pretty good job at doing that. So now I'm taking that same concept in finance and also bringing the health aspects so that we can hopefully get more and more people in a place where they're healthy, both financially and physically.

Chris Kiefer (29:00.682)

So your previous business was a family, like a fractional family office essentially. Okay, and now you're basically family office with the health and wellness integrated as well.

garrett (29:06.748)

Virtual Family Office.

garrett (29:13.061)

and way more affordable, way more affordable because I'm going to do a lot of it in a way that we're going to utilize AI and technology and we're going to, you know, I'll be teaching every week and, you know, just thinking about making it bite-sized and implementable. And so, and I have an amazing partner in it. So it's been years in the making and it's actually going to come out in July. So it's right around the corner here.

Chris Kiefer (29:33.154)

That's awesome. Well, let's move to some wrap up questions for you. What are, well, first of all, just to make sure that we can link all these, you had your Killing Sacred Cows, Money Unmasked, I Am Not Money, I Don't Grow on Trees, and then what are the other books that you've written or are coming up?

garrett (29:49.266)

I'm money.

garrett (29:54.697)

Well, I'm going to put out a book bundle for 47 bucks, so people should check out my website. It should be up pretty soon. Garr Go to books and the books that people are going to look for in there, Killing the Secret Cows 2.0, What Would the Rock Brothers Do?, Money Unmasked, and then two digital courses that come with that for 47 bucks. So that's, you know, that's all hardcover books in their hands. I just want to help them, you know, get their financial house in order, get it on track and have the insights and information.

So yeah, whether they want to listen or what they want to read, I kind of give them a little bit of both. And those courses would normally be like anywhere from $200 to $500 normally, but I'm bonusing those in the books. Killing Secret Countess is a rich life investor course. What Would the Rockfellas Do? has a legacy builder course. And I mean, you know, you've got a nice workbook and a few videos to follow along. So I'm pretty excited about that as well.

Chris Kiefer (30:47.022)

Speaking of the Rockefellers, we just went to St. Augustine, Florida. Have you ever been there?

garrett (30:51.805)

Yep, love St. Augustine. I have a few really good friends that live there, two good friends.

Chris Kiefer (30:54.59)

Yeah. The, uh, Henry Flagler who is Rockefeller's business partner was like, everything was Flagler Flagler, everything. And he was all over that town, but, uh, it was fascinating to understand. I did some research on John Rockefeller and his partnership with Flagler and how basically St. Augustine was like this, uh, summer home for the, or sorry, winter escape for the wealthy like New York and the Northern livers that wanted to get away from the cold weather.

garrett (31:17.078)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (31:24.93)

but it's hilarious that back then before air conditioning, basically they said as soon as it was like April or May, like you did not wanna be in St. Augustine because it was way too humid and hot and everyone just left. So just be like nobody there in the summer and then everyone would come in the winter. So three, so we got your books. Can you give us three other book recommendations that have been either your favorite books, ones you've read most recently?

Highly recommended, you give the most often.

garrett (31:58.645)

So I love anything by Steven Pressfield, especially the War of Art. I love that book, read it more than once, especially for anyone that's ever created content. That's really, really helpful. Anything really by David Hawkins. You know, I think I started with Power vs. Force, but the Eye of the Eye or Letting Go.

I love his audio, In the World but Not of It, probably my favorite. So those are two. Let's see, a third one. I mean, I don't know how it would be now, but one of the books that really changed my life early on was Rich Dad Poor Dad. That book just really impacted me when I was really starting in this financial world and really focusing on cash flow. So I'm really grateful for that book. I don't know what it would read like now, but I liked it then.

Chris Kiefer (32:54.218)

Yeah, and favorite movie.

garrett (32:59.633)

I've probably watched John Wick more than any other movie, but Inglourious Basterds is pretty damn amazing. I mean, in the old days, I might've said Shawshank, Redemption, you know, there's just so many good movies out there. But I just think Inglourious Basterds has multiple language, but I don't feel like I'm watching a foreign film and introduced this to Christoph Waltz, who is just phenomenal in that. And there's just some super intense scenes and Tarantino is just a pretty genius. I like rewriting.

how Hitler dies, I think that's pretty amazing.

Chris Kiefer (33:29.386)

And this is the, yeah, you're talking about the 2009 one with Brad Pitt. Yeah, awesome. And if someone wants to get in touch with you, what's your preferred method of contact, your website?

garrett (33:33.757)

Yep, wrap, it's awesome too.

garrett (33:41.809)

I go to garrickgunnison.com, garrickgunnison.com. My team looks at that. But go to my blog, subscribe to that, grab the quiz, and find out what your money persona is and those hidden factors that determine your success or failure when it comes to those things. So I think that that's the best way to get info.

Chris Kiefer (34:01.502)

Awesome, well, thank you so much for your time and being generous. Yeah, this was awesome, I appreciate it.

garrett (34:04.853)

Please try again.

Chris Kiefer (34:10.875)

And...