Built to Finish

Chris Kiefer (00:01.212)

Welcome back to another episode of the Pursuit of Purpose. My name is Chris Kieffer and today I am joined by Stephen Pivnik, who is a bestselling author, advisor and speaker. He's done Ironmans, he started businesses and he currently is planning to summit Mount Everest. So very exciting conversation here. First of all, Stephen, thank you so much for taking the time to come on.

Steven Pivnik (00:23.056)

You bet Chris, happy to be here.

Chris Kiefer (00:25.052)

So yeah, tell me about your entrepreneurial journey. And I know one thing that you're passionate about is just fitness and doing endurance races like the Ironman. I'm curious how all that comes together, but let's start with the entrepreneurship.

Steven Pivnik (00:40.304)

Sure, I mean, it's kind of tough to condense it into a few minutes, but basically I got bitten by the entrepreneurial bug really early in my career. I was a computer programmer doing, in the good old days, mainframe programming way before PCs were invented. And once the PCs came about, I migrated my skillset into the PC realm and just got bitten by the entrepreneurial bug because I come from an immigrant entrepreneurial family, started my own business.

started doing custom application development for large companies in New York City. Those custom projects evolved into a software product that we developed, that we started selling a lot of. And it only took 26 years, but I grew the company to over 200 employees across 12 countries, doing over $40 million in annual revenue. And our number one competitor,

which was a $4 billion software company named Quest Software acquired us. So September 21 is when the acquisition occurred.

Chris Kiefer (01:47.676)

What's the name of the software? Can you talk about that at all?

Steven Pivnik (01:50.128)

Yeah, sure. So the company was called Binary Tree. It was a very, very niche software company. I'm a firm believer that there are riches in the niches. I love that saying. We helped large companies move email data. Right? So as computers evolved and as email platforms evolved, there was a large need to move from one to the other as competitors came up with better systems. So there was a whole bunch of early players, then IBM became an industry leader.

and then Microsoft surpassed them, then the cloud came about. With all of those email changes in the world, companies wanted to make sure that the data that their employees used, namely their inbox, their contacts, their calendars, were migrated over without any disruption to the end user. So that's what we specialized in.

Chris Kiefer (02:36.732)

I love that we're right now are my consulting and automation business focuses on painting businesses, which is when people hear that it's like not only not any painting, but a three to $7 million painting company that's trying to get to 15 to 20 million residential or commercial. Like that's our niche. And if you're smaller than that, it's, you're probably not going to have the cash or the, it's not going to be an ROI positive engagement.

Steven Pivnik (02:43.184)

Painting, okay?

Steven Pivnik (02:53.584)

Mm -hmm.

Okay.

Chris Kiefer (03:05.052)

And then bigger than that, generally they, you know, have solved that, this automation problem with someone else in house, or it's very hard to get to, to 20 million without it. But anyways, yeah, I completely agree. And it's, it blows my mind how every single client we think, okay, we got it all figured out now. And we just continue to learn more and more and more about the needs of a painting company. And we're able to take all the stuff from the past clients and apply it to the next one.

Steven Pivnik (03:11.952)

Yeah, they figured it out.

Chris Kiefer (03:32.732)

which is the same thing you're talking about in software. It's like, you know, how many, I'm actually very interested on the topic of the number of niche software tools that are going to be created moving forward because they're, they're now with AI and the ability to solve these hyper specific problems. I think that, um, there's, there's hundreds of businesses that have yet to be created.

Steven Pivnik (03:45.616)

Oh, 100%.

Chris Kiefer (03:57.948)

that do one thing for a very specific set of customers that they would pay handsomely for, you know.

Steven Pivnik (04:03.6)

Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, AI is definitely going to displace a lot in the world. But I'm really, really proud to say that if you stick AI on the solution that we solved, it won't be able to fix it. It was just so incredible. You have no idea the technical details behind a calendar entry on an invite, especially, let's say, if you send somebody a calendar invite that recurs, like, let's say, every third Tuesday of the month, and then you move one of them to a Wednesday.

Chris Kiefer (04:16.38)

Hahaha!

Steven Pivnik (04:33.456)

the technical sequence behind the bits and bytes of that and to be able to convert it into like a new system is incredibly challenging. So that's the niche that we solved.

Chris Kiefer (04:43.004)

Oh, that's awesome. So you built this software company. What stabs did you take before this one that you started 26 years ago and sold?

Steven Pivnik (04:55.024)

Yeah, I was really, really young, young and dumb and inexperienced. At first, it was just pure consulting. I actually had the ad around here somewhere. We put an ad into the New York Times and said, if you're tired of paying inflated consulting prices, call us. For $40 an hour, we'll do anything you need. There wasn't a lot of needs back in the 80s, but whatever there was, we kind of figured out. But it was very, very, it was...

missionless, it wasn't like, it wasn't goal orientated, it was really just trading time for dollars. Not too exciting, shocking, it didn't go anywhere. The next company wasn't a little bit, it was a little bit different in that we took a, my partner at the time developed a custom program for a fashion house here on Seventh Avenue in Manhattan to help them with inventory management and billing. So my bright idea was, hey, if one company needs this,

Chris Kiefer (05:31.74)

Hmm.

Steven Pivnik (05:50.32)

everybody up and down Fashion Avenue would need this software. So there was no email, there was no faxes. I basically copy and pasted a letter to like 45 different businesses up and down Fashion Avenue and nobody responded. Amazing. There was no follow up. There should have been some phone calls. There should have been door to door knocking. I'm a firm believer that had I known about the multi -touch approach that is necessary in marketing.

Chris Kiefer (06:05.852)

Ha ha ha.

Steven Pivnik (06:18.992)

We could have made a go of it, but that didn't happen. But attempt number three hit.

Chris Kiefer (06:19.132)

Hmm.

Chris Kiefer (06:24.252)

That's awesome. So yeah, so you, um, three years ago, roughly, uh, you sold the company and then was there a time where you had to stay on for a certain number of years or?

Steven Pivnik (06:35.952)

Yeah, that's a great question. So this is a big advice I give to entrepreneurs. Many want to stay on and a lot don't. I made it a mission of mine to not be included in the acquisition. So in order to increase the odds of that happening, two years prior to the exit, I brought on a CEO to run my company. I stayed on as an executive. I promoted myself to executive chairman.

Allowing myself, you know, I still worked with the CEO, you know on the business, but he took care of the business day to day So when it came time to do diligence for the acquisition It was painfully obvious that I was no longer an integral part of the organization and I wasn't needed You

Chris Kiefer (07:16.988)

Hmm, that's awesome. So yeah, how does all this endurance and races and stuff come into play?

Steven Pivnik (07:25.872)

Sure, so I consider this my midlife crisis. When I turned 40, I started really taking my health seriously. Between my parents and my grandparents, they had every disease known. So I knew that it was in my genes somewhere. So I wanted to make sure that if and when those things came, I'd be in the best shape possible to fight them and not go through the pain that I witnessed with them. And I randomly learned about this thing called triathlon.

that I previously thought was this unique Olympic -only elite event. I learned that I'm mere mortal, like myself can sign up for a triathlon, compete, and the rest is history. So I started off with a sprint triathlon, which is the shortest distance, an 800 -meter swim, 12 -mile bike, 5K run, finishing under two hours. And that evening, I learned about this thing called Ironman.

And I said to myself, I don't know how, you know, some way, somehow I'm going to get, I'm going to become an Ironman, which is a 2 .4 mile swim, 112 mile bike and a 26 .2 full marathon. I said, somehow, some way I'm going to do that. And I'm going to compete in their world championship in Kona, Hawaii. So that started a, another journey, which took about, you know, 12 years to complete. But I went from that sprint, the cinch triathlon.

to the Ironman World Championship.

Chris Kiefer (08:50.204)

How do you get to the world championship? What's the requirement?

Steven Pivnik (08:53.904)

So there's two ways. The most popular way is to be super fast. So Ironman, which I am not, Ironman has grown in popularity so much. The last valuation was over a billion dollars. They have two to three races someplace on the planet every single weekend. Every single race has a small amount of qualifying spots for the world championship. So the fastest in each age group.

Chris Kiefer (08:58.382)

Hahaha.

Steven Pivnik (09:19.792)

get to go to Kona, Hawaii, or now they have a world championship in Nice, France as well. So 2 ,500 of the world's fastest triathletes get to go to Kona. Plus, it's become so popular that they allocate 100 lottery spots. And the only way to get a lottery ticket is to complete 12 full distance R &M races. Not in any time specific, as long as you beat the 17 hour cutoff.

you get credit for a race completion. So I knew I wasn't fast. My motto was not fast, not last. I did 12 over many years. And then after my 12th, I entered the lottery, got my ticket, and raced in Kona in October of 21. Thank you.

Chris Kiefer (10:07.516)

That's awesome. How do you, once you get, is it like you get your entry and then you're like, you get one shot to win and then it's gone or does it stay in the pool and it keeps getting drawn every year?

Steven Pivnik (10:20.177)

No, you have to keep racing. So if you don't get the spot, you have to keep racing because one of the... It's not just 12, it's 12 in a certain timeframe, specifically in the trailing or three years leading up to each year's drawing. So they're smart. They want to keep you... A, they want to keep you in shape. B, they want to keep getting your race registration fees.

Chris Kiefer (10:34.524)

Ah, that's cool.

Chris Kiefer (10:41.788)

I was going to say it would, if you, uh, if you just had done 12 and then you took three years off and they're like, Hey, you ready? And you're like, Oh gosh, I haven't done this in a while. That makes perfect sense. Um, awesome. So yeah. And then what's this Mount Everest thing? This sounds crazy.

Steven Pivnik (10:51.76)

Exactly. Yep, it does.

Steven Pivnik (10:59.056)

Yeah, so when I started my endurance journey, so I started with triathlons, I evolved into ultra marathons, and then I got into mountaineering. I started with Mount Rainier in Washington State, then I took a training class to get some more skills. I went to Denali in Alaska. I went to, I did Kilimanjaro. I summited Mount Akin Kanwa, which is in South America. Everest's second highest cousin at 23 ,000 feet.

So I was about to do Elbrus, which is the tallest peak in Europe. Unfortunately, the war broke out in Russia. So Elbrus was closed for tourism, wasn't able to do Elbrus. But so I was slowly but surely on my way to the seven summits. And then I had this incredible opportunity to sign up for a trip to Everest next year. So I took it. So I'm kind of shortcutting the other shorter ones and going straight to the big boy in May of next year.

Chris Kiefer (11:52.988)

What is the, when you say an incredible opportunity, describe this opportunity.

Steven Pivnik (11:57.648)

Sure, so there's a lot of different guiding companies that will take you to Everest. My biggest requirement for a guiding company is one that cares about bringing me back alive first and foremost, and the summit is secondary. I mean, you hear about so many horror stories on Everest with people dying. I mean, obviously, you can't control natural disasters. That's nobody's fault. But in a lot of other cases, unfortunately, those deaths could be prevented. So I'm going with a guiding company that they're

their number one priority is to, and this is how I climbed other mountains as well, and I've been turned back on other mountains where the guide would say, we're not going any further, either because you're not in good enough shape, you thought you were, but you can't try a summit, or the weather's really bad, and we're not gonna risk anybody's life to try it. So that's my number one requirement, a really, really reputable guiding company. And...

Chris Kiefer (12:51.42)

When I'm just curious in that situation where they say you're not in good enough shape, you're not just with a guide and you there's 10 other people or something. So everybody turns around because one person wasn't fit enough.

Steven Pivnik (13:02.928)

No, so the one specific expedition I'm talking about where I've been on other expeditions where somebody else was the weakest link. And in that case, they basically leave the climber at the last camp, at the basically high camp. And they say, sometimes they'll leave a guide there as well. If it's really dangerous, they won't leave you alone. But they'll say, stay here. We're going to try to summit. We'll be back in 12 hours, 20 hours. You're safe in the tent. You have plenty of food. Take care of yourself.

Chris Kiefer (13:17.66)

Hmm.

Steven Pivnik (13:32.208)

And so that's happened to me when somebody else was the weakest link. And unfortunately, you know, I went to Alaska once. This was actually a couple of years ago and I thought I was ready, but I wasn't. And when we got to high camp, my guide said to me, we're really, really sorry, but you can't come up with us tomorrow or attempt a summit tomorrow because you've been hurting on, you know, every single day up until 19 ,000 feet. And I completely respected that decision because she was right. I was not in good enough shape to attempt.

a really, really, really arduous summer day.

Chris Kiefer (14:04.988)

What is the, um, described, like I, I have climbed, I have gone on long hikes. I've never even, I don't even know if I would consider, like I've climbed to the top of mountains. They're probably Hills, right? I don't know. I don't know what would be defined as a mountain, but, um, I feel like I'm in good shape. How do you, like what type of activity do you do to get ready to summit one of the seven tallest mountains?

Steven Pivnik (14:15.344)

Okay.

Steven Pivnik (14:32.592)

So first and foremost, you have to do a lot of cardio. I mean, you have to be super comfortable in going strong, you know, cardio wise for like a good, let's say 10 hours. So you have to be in good enough shape to let's say run an ultra marathon, like a 50K. If you can run, fully run, very minimal walking, just jog for 10 hours straight and stay in a high aerobic state, you have to be in good enough shape to stay.

Chris Kiefer (14:49.148)

Hmm.

Steven Pivnik (15:01.2)

in a high aerobic state for an extended amount of time. So that's building up your aerobic capability. And then there's just a ton of core and lower body strength training that you have to do. Just a ton of squats, a lot of lunges, a lot of stair work, and a lot of that while carrying a heavy pack.

Chris Kiefer (15:22.876)

Wow, that's crazy. And so you've done, if I heard you correctly, you've summited four of the top seven and now you're going to Everest?

Steven Pivnik (15:24.688)

Yeah.

Steven Pivnik (15:33.232)

So I've summited Ekin Kanwa and Kilimanjaro, those are two. I've attempted Denali twice. The first time we were turned back for weather, the second time I wasn't allowed to attend the summit. And unfortunately, the weather, so the rest of my team went and they got turned back at 20 ,000 feet because the weather got really bad. Again, further evidence that the guide made the right call. She's like, I'm not risking frostbite, I'm not risking anybody's death, we're going back. So nobody summited that year for my team.

Chris Kiefer (15:51.164)

time.

Steven Pivnik (16:01.68)

So yeah, so I'm skipping some of the other shorter ones like, you know, the one in Asia, the one in Australia, I'm sorry, the one in Europe, Australia and, oh, Antarctica. I was also scheduled to go to Antarctica, but I'm postponing that until after Everest.

Chris Kiefer (16:23.676)

So how does like these, these sound like very impressive physical feats. How does all this relate back to business or how has it helped you as a business owner and entrepreneur? Like you just sold a business. You're, I don't, I'm, I don't know how old you are, but I'm, I'm curious if you're, are you going to start another business in the near future? Are you done or like, is it, are you now onto more challenging?

Steven Pivnik (16:42.128)

Chris Kiefer (16:51.004)

Like obviously you're writing and speaking and there's this other career that's blossoming. But yeah, I'm curious, how do you take this stuff, this endurance learnings and bring it back to the business world?

Steven Pivnik (17:02.8)

Sure, so there's a lot of similarities. I mean, I think entrepreneurship is an endurance sport between the planning, preparation, execution, dealing with setbacks, having to pivot, having stamina. There's a lot of similarities. So if you're good at one side of the equation, on the endurance side, I think you can translate a lot of those characteristics into the entrepreneurial side. The one light bulb that went off in my head was when I started training.

and the sports watches record a lot of data, right? And there's all these apps that report on all this data on your pace, on your heart rate, on your calories burned, on your, you know, feet ascended and descended, et cetera, et cetera. I started looking at all these incredible reports and I realized that I had more data on my own personal performance than I had on my company's performance. So I went KPI crazy at work. I came in and I met with every single department head.

And we jointly came up with a set of reports that they were going to produce on a monthly basis and bring them into a newly instituted monthly operating review meeting. And once we started meeting based on data, based on trends, based on analysis, we just started just really running the company a lot more professionally. And we had a lot better results because of this.

Chris Kiefer (18:26.748)

Hmm. And so the basically the idea is.

having the KPIs or I mean, I completely agree that if you have your number, like know your number, if you know the number that you're supposed to optimize in, maybe it's one, two or three, it's much easier to know what to do and you focus your attention. How do you decide what the most important numbers are for a given department?

Steven Pivnik (18:38.704)

Right.

Steven Pivnik (18:54.128)

I'm sure. So, I mean, there's obviously best practices. There's a lot of information out there and it's with very, very little challenge. You'll be able to figure out what the best numbers are, depending on what you're trying to accomplish. Are you trying to solve for market share? Are you trying to solve for profitability? Are you trying to solve for enterprise value? So you have to figure out what you're trying to solve for. And then once you get that, you can figure out what the best KPIs are in order to get there.

Chris Kiefer (19:26.108)

Um, so any, I mean, I guess I would say what else outside of, uh, metrics and tracking, uh, is like, obviously I completely see like, Oh, you're trying to optimize your heart rate and staying in a certain cardio zone and applying that. What else besides KPIs do you take into business from these endurance, uh, feats?

Steven Pivnik (19:46.224)

Yeah, just the sense of accomplishment from setting a really big goal, one that seems unattainable, like doing my first ultra marathon, or climbing my first mountain, or doing a ultra triathlon, which I've attempted as well. When you set these larger than life goals, and then you start executing a plan to get there, it becomes really, really easy to then turn that around and say, okay, you know what?

I'm looking for 56 % growth in Europe next year. And we've never grown 56 % in Europe, but you know what, why not? So let's break down that goal into some smaller parts and go after these smaller goals and they stack up on one another. And all of a sudden you've achieved something that you thought wasn't possible before just because I had the confidence that I set out to do something. I didn't think I could run 50 miles straight, but you know what?

I set out a plan to get to 50 miles. I did that. So let's go grow 50 % in Europe next year.

Chris Kiefer (20:46.492)

Hmm. Yeah, I mean, that's I'm trying to think I've I have debated. So I've done a marathon before and a couple of halves, and I've always said, oh, yeah, I'm going to do an Iron Man someday. Have you heard any of those statistics of I feel I don't know where I heard this, but an Iron Man takes eight years off your life or something like that. And.

Steven Pivnik (21:12.304)

Yeah, that's...

Chris Kiefer (21:13.5)

Is that, is that, um, it's not like every iron man keeps taking years off your life because you just proved that wrong. You've done 12 of them and the math doesn't add up. Right. But have you heard that or what is the optimal way to consider like incorporating all these things into your life for ultimately like I'm assuming longevity and, um, and staying fit and healthy and capable into an older age.

Steven Pivnik (21:39.216)

Yeah, what you mentioned is actually a fact. So once you've completed an iron man, your body has deteriorated the equivalent of seven to eight years. So from a, um, um, from a physical, um, organ stem, biological perspective, you've, you've, you've died. You've reversed the sevens. You've aged seven years. Fortunately, everything that you've hurt or have injured or have debt or have damaged grows back. So.

Chris Kiefer (22:08.316)

Ah, okay.

Steven Pivnik (22:08.592)

within a three to four week timeframe, you're back to where you were. So the damage is real, but the damage is not permanent. So everything grows back. But I...

Chris Kiefer (22:16.636)

How interesting.

But your body, if someone were to look at your body and analyze, you would appear or register as eight years older from like looking at your organs and stuff than you were the day before the race.

Steven Pivnik (22:27.472)

Correct.

Steven Pivnik (22:31.888)

Exactly. And I don't have enough data on exactly which organs age more, but there's, there's, listen, there's no sugar coating it. You're putting your body through an incredible ordeal and a superhuman amount of stress. But when you come out the other end and you know, everything starts healing. But the beauty about it is that the journey to get there has put you in such incredible shape and has done such goodness for your health that it's just, it's a temporary setback. And again, it's not permanent, right? So.

Chris Kiefer (22:36.38)

Ah.

Steven Pivnik (23:01.68)

you know, why not go through that, you know, three week process of healing if the six month process to get there has gotten you to a level that you were never at before.

Chris Kiefer (23:11.548)

The only other thing I'm thinking about is if you're going to climb mountains or do races, is there what's like the tallest metro metropolitan city in the world? What's the high altitude wise?

Steven Pivnik (23:26.704)

Highest? I would say Denver. Mountains aside, when you land in Denver, that's why it's called the Mile High Stadium in Denver. And every single football team that plays at Denver Broncos has to show up a week prior to the game to acclimatize to being a mile high.

Chris Kiefer (23:28.988)

Denver is.

Chris Kiefer (23:34.46)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (23:44.796)

I was going to say that is there any other places you go or they recommend like, I'm sure you don't want to be hanging out in Hawaii the week before you go climb Mount Everest.

Steven Pivnik (23:55.728)

No, absolutely. I mean, you want to be staying at the highest altitude possible. And it's interesting, the company that I'm going with, they've pioneered something called the rapid ascent. So typically, an Everest expedition takes two and a half to three months. And the biggest reason for that is you have to get there. It's in the other side of the world, right in Nepal. You have to get to base camp, which is around 19 ,000 feet in altitude.

and then you have to stay at base camp and hire for a good month to month and a half. Going higher, coming lower, going higher. You're kind of doing like an EKG chart to get higher and higher and higher for your body to acclimatize. So the company that I'm going with, they send you something, I think the company is called Apoxico. They send you an Apoxico tent. So you're literally, you're at sea level for a month.

prior to departure, you don't have to live in a tent. You sleep in this apoxicotent and it pumps nitrogen into the tent and removes a little bit of oxygen. So it's simulating the environment at 19 ,000 feet so that your body is actually acclimatizing to altitude while you're at sea level.

Chris Kiefer (25:08.156)

Wow. I'm looking at this now, how poxico interesting. So you, you just, uh, it basically reduces the amount of oxygen in the air. So your body has to adjust and, and create, what is it more blood cells to.

Steven Pivnik (25:11.088)

Yeah.

Steven Pivnik (25:21.008)

It's red blood cells that you need. So with the decreased amount of oxygen, you need more red blood cells for your body to cope with it better.

Chris Kiefer (25:30.236)

And so then I'm guessing this is like the most, I love the, just the scientific approach to this. So then you get there when you're at base camp and you're doing like, you know, up and backs or whatever, and they're monitoring you, are they looking at just like, okay, the average person that is able to do this should have a heart rate that doesn't exceed this or their oxygen saturation should be at this point the whole time. And if you're not there, then you got to wait another week to.

Steven Pivnik (25:41.648)

Uh -huh.

Chris Kiefer (25:58.14)

until you're ready. But then when you do this and when you do this in prep, it cuts that time from month and a half to two weeks or something.

Steven Pivnik (25:59.312)

That's exactly what they look at.

Steven Pivnik (26:05.616)

Yeah, so most reputable organizations, the guides are trained into measuring just that, you know, heart rate and oxygen levels. Everest, because it's so extreme, the company that I'm going with, they actually have a full -time doctor that's at base camp and, you know, monitoring you super, super closely, you know, throughout the entire expedition.

Chris Kiefer (26:25.564)

Wow. And you said base camps 19 ,000 feet. And what's the, what, isn't that like a really tall mountain itself?

Steven Pivnik (26:28.144)

approximately like um

Yeah, so to put it in perspective, Mount Kiln -Lajaro, the peak is 19 ,000 feet. So I think base camp is just shy of 19. Don't quote me on this. There's two base camps. There's one on the Nepal side and one on the Tibet side. I'm going the Tibet route, which is you can't drive to base camp on the Nepal side. It's a two week trek. I'm sorry. It's a week trek to get to base camp. On the Nepal...

Chris Kiefer (26:38.043)

That's crazy.

Chris Kiefer (26:50.012)

And can you drive to base camp or no?

Steven Pivnik (27:00.08)

and that's on Nepal, I'm going on the Tibet side through China, there you can drive to base camp.

Chris Kiefer (27:07.164)

And then once you're when you leave base camp for the real deal you're going to the top how many days are You climbing to get there?

Steven Pivnik (27:16.272)

So it's a couple of weeks and there's four stops on the way to the top.

Chris Kiefer (27:22.396)

And then on the way down, is it like three days or?

Steven Pivnik (27:24.88)

Yeah, it's a lot quicker on the way down. So it's like it's two to three days on the way down because

Chris Kiefer (27:30.332)

Wow. And is it that's again, you just have to get to a level stop, recoup and everything and then let your body recover a little bit or climate.

Steven Pivnik (27:36.88)

Yeah. Yeah, on the way up is obviously harder, A, you're going up. The oxygen is decreasing, so it's getting harder. People really don't have a complete appreciation for how slow one moves. You literally, you take a step and you take three to five breaths, and then you take another step. Then you take three to five full breaths, and you take another step. That, you're literally moving in slow motion as you're going up, and it gets slower as you're going up the mountain.

And when you start coming down, it's a lot easier. It's like step, step, step, step, step, step, step, step.

Chris Kiefer (28:06.108)

Wow. Yeah, that's easier. Yeah. And then when do you bring out oxygen? Is that just the last day or two or like?

Steven Pivnik (28:15.856)

Yeah, it's basically, it's something, I mean, I hate this name, it's horrible. It's called the death zone. So once you hit 26 ,000 feet, your body basically starts eating itself to survive. And I still don't understand how some people do this without oxygen. The vast majority, myself included, will be using oxygen. So at 26 ,000 feet, you put on oxygen tanks.

Chris Kiefer (28:39.196)

And then you have to get to what is the final height.

Steven Pivnik (28:40.624)

So you have to get to 29 ,000, 29 ,029.

Chris Kiefer (28:43.964)

So you go 3 ,000 feet with oxygen.

Steven Pivnik (28:47.984)

And that takes like a good, I mean, it can take anywhere from six to like 15 hours to...

Chris Kiefer (28:52.828)

and you wanna do that in one up and then get back down.

Steven Pivnik (28:55.728)

Yeah, basically I'm looking at probably a 20 hour summer day, like about 10 to 12 hours to get up and then another eight hours to come down to high camp.

Chris Kiefer (29:01.628)

Oof.

Chris Kiefer (29:07.612)

And then did who who's the group that you're going with? Are these like? Like did you hand pick these people? Did they hear about you? How do you just put your name on a list and you get invited with a bunch of other strangers or who do you go with?

Steven Pivnik (29:19.824)

I heard about them. They're called Alpine Glow Expeditions. I did a lot of research. I mean, prior to them, I was a huge fan of RMI. I've used RMI for all of my other mountains and I love them a lot. But I heard about the Alpine Glow guys and I just, I love this approach that they use with the Rapid Ascent and this Apoxico tent.

and the fact that they go via the Chinese route, the North Face, because all these things you hear about, there's been a lot of negative publicity about Everest with the traffic jams and all the pollution and litter on the mountain. All of that happens on the Tibet side. I'm sorry, the Nepal side. The Tibet side, the Chinese side, has a lot more regulations, significantly less garbage, a lot less people.

and they're very, very picky on who they give permits to. So because they give less permits, like on the Nepal side, pretty much if you have money, you plug in $30 ,000, you get a permit to climb. On the Chinese side, you have to submit a climbing resume, your experience, certification from the guiding company that they're gonna be taking care of you, and they're a lot more selective, resulting in a lot less people.

Chris Kiefer (30:37.564)

Wow, interesting. Super fascinating. Any other closing thoughts, things that you came here before my wrap up questions?

Steven Pivnik (30:45.872)

Yeah, sure. I mean, I just wanted to promote my book a little bit. So I basically, I wanted to memorialize my entire entrepreneurial and endurance sports journey in the hopes of inspiring others to set really big goals and go after them. So I released a book in January of this year called Built to Finish. I was amazed that it hit the Amazon bestseller list on day one. I became number one bestseller for a week and it's available there and there's an audio book coming soon.

Chris Kiefer (31:13.916)

Awesome, yeah, I'm a audio book junkie. So I have books that I try to read, but I don't get around to physically reading as often as I listen. So that's awesome. And what are your three book recommendations outside of your own?

Steven Pivnik (31:30.48)

Three books, interesting. One of my favorite books that I recommend to a lot of people is called The One Thing. The premise behind The One Thing, it's a book on prioritization. And the premise behind it is like, what is the, so pick a problem, pick a topic, pick a challenge, pick a goal. What is the one thing that you can do that will make everything else easier or unnecessary? So when you ask that question,

against any backdrop of a goal. I think it's a super powerful methodology to go against sound -tackling goals. Discipline is the destiny is another one I recently read, which I really liked. I'm actually, this is the only audio book that I'm listening to it for the third time. Every single chapter can be listened to independently. And it really talks about just the power of discipline. It is Ryan Haller, yeah.

Chris Kiefer (32:22.972)

Is this Ryan Holiday? Oh, that's awesome.

Steven Pivnik (32:26.736)

love love love that book and um i'm not sure was was there an earlier edition

Chris Kiefer (32:28.892)

Is that a brand, a newer one from Ryan Holiday?

Chris Kiefer (32:35.58)

I don't I just am wondering if the because he Ryan Holliday has written many books that I've read. I'm wondering if that particular book. OK, cool.

Steven Pivnik (32:39.728)

Oh yeah, this may be one of his latest books.

And I'm not a huge science fiction fan, but oh my God, I could not put this book down. It's called Project Hail Mary. Again, you know, science fiction, it's about a guy that, you know, he's been sent to space to save the earth and the drama that ensues by him and all of his experiences out there. Spoiler alert, there's an alien involved, but it's a fascinating, that gets introduced really early, but it's a fascinating type of alien and how they partner up.

to save humanity and the aliens planet as well. Again, not a huge science fiction fan, this sounds like really, really out there, but oh my God, is it entertaining? And I heard that there's a movie being filmed, which I'm super excited about.

Chris Kiefer (33:27.42)

That's awesome. And you got a movie recommendation for us.

Steven Pivnik (33:31.568)

A movie recommendation. My favorite movie is Top Gun. I watched both. I watched, before the second one came out, I mean, I watched the original with no exaggeration, at least once a month. And now that the second one has come out, I alternate between the original and the second one.

Chris Kiefer (33:37.244)

The original.

Chris Kiefer (33:49.436)

Switch to that one. The second one is like, I feel like that might be one of the greatest sequels. You know, sequels are so hard to live up to the original, but such a good one.

Steven Pivnik (34:00.624)

Totally.

Yeah, I went to see with my wife and my younger daughter, our younger daughter on opening day in an IMAX theater. And my younger one goes, dad, I'm not even a fan of Top Gun. This is one of the best movies I've ever seen. And I just heard this last week, number three just got approved. So they're coming out with a third. Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (34:16.284)

I agree.

Chris Kiefer (34:21.692)

Oh, nice. That's awesome. Well, Stephen, if people want to get in touch with you, what's your preferred method of contact?

Steven Pivnik (34:29.776)

Sure, best way to find me is via my website that has a link to all of my social media handles. So it's steven with a V, pivnik, P -I -V -N -I -K dot com. And like I said, it has my Instagram, my LinkedIn, my Facebook handles, and my email address as well. So stevenpivnik .com.

Chris Kiefer (34:48.284)

That's awesome. And are you still doing Iron Man's?

Steven Pivnik (34:50.96)

I am. I am not done. I want to continue to race. I love the Ironman lifestyle. It keeps me healthy. I've actually taken up ultra triathlons. And so just when you think there's one race which is crazy, there's always somebody that comes up with a crazier race. So.

Chris Kiefer (35:07.452)

And have you ever done or heard of the Coeur d 'Alene Iron Man? I've heard that it's a popular one amongst...

Steven Pivnik (35:14.832)

Coeur d 'Alene has two. They have a full distance one and they have a half. I've done the half there and I can't wait to go back there to do the full. I don't know why, I just never got around to getting to Idaho. Coeur d 'Alene is gorgeous. It's a phenomenal destination for just to visit. And that's one of the many things I love about Ironman is you get to these really, really cool venues and you make a mini vacation out of it.

Chris Kiefer (35:29.052)

Hmm.

Chris Kiefer (35:43.58)

Yeah, well, that's where I'm at is in Coeur d 'Alene. So whenever you make it over to the Ironman here, let me know.

Steven Pivnik (35:46.512)

Okay.

Oh, good to know. I definitely will.

Chris Kiefer (35:51.42)

All right, thanks, Steven. Have a good one and we'll talk to you soon.

Steven Pivnik (35:54.128)

Thank you, Chris. I appreciate it.