A Journey from Overwork to Balance

Chris (00:00.86)

Welcome back to another episode of the Pursuit of Purpose. My name is Chris Kieffer and I am here today with the one and only Jason Phillips, who is the founder and president of Phillips Home Improvements, as well as the founder of Contractor Freedom. So Jason, anyone in the painting world should know you. But for those of you, well, I guess before we get into that, I just want to say thank you for taking the time to do this. I know we had to reschedule a number of times because...

I was traveling, then you were traveling, and anyways, here we are, but I'm glad that you were taking the time to do this.

Jason Phillips (00:34.192)

Yeah, Chris. Thanks, man. I'm glad to be I'm glad to be here today. So excited to talk to you love love talking about business and leadership and personal growth. So yeah, it's great to be here.

Chris (00:45.468)

That's awesome. So I think give me like the, for someone, if they've not been in the painting world, anyone that's been to PCA more than once would know you, but outside of the painting world, give us kind of the, the 60 to 92nd bio on Jason Phillips.

Jason Phillips (01:05.616)

Well, I started my company back in 1997, the good old fashioned way knocking on doors because I had no choice, had no money. I was I was completely broke because the company I was previously working for was basically running into the ground and I was like six weeks behind on my pay. So went out and said, Hey, you know what, I think I can make a difference in my community. I can raise the standards, I can conduct business ethically and give people what they deserve. So I felt like people weren't getting what they deserve. So I

started a painting business. I knew nothing about knew nothing about I'm not a painter by trade. I'm not a trades person. I knew sales, I knew marketing, and had a lot of energy. And so I paired up with a with a paint crew and and boom hopped into business. Had some had some great early success, but I hit a number of ceilings along the way because I didn't know what I didn't know. And ultimately, I ended up with a, you know,

by some means a business that we would say was successful, but I was bankrupt on time. And I was in what I call contractor prison. And I meet a lot of contractors now who are in that contractor prison. And that's kind of what I'm passionate about is helping them get over to the other side of contractor freedom. So today I've got a company Phillips Home Improvements. We're in the Dallas area. We provide painting, roofing and gutters for DFW homeowners. And I've got a

absolutely great team of people. My life is wonderful. Got five beautiful children, and the youngest of which is just graduating high school this next week. And the oldest is about to have her first baby and I'm going to be a I'm going to be a my wife and are going to be grandparents for the first time here in a few weeks.

Chris (02:48.284)

Wow. Congratulations. That's awesome. Five kids. We have, we have four kids right now. and, I, I come from a family of five. I just, I love big families. So I always, and I also love meeting entrepreneurs that have big families because at least in my experience, more often than not, it seems like I come across people and from a distance I'm like, look, they're successful. They're doing some great things.

Jason Phillips (02:51.12)

Thank you. Thank you.

Chris (03:16.284)

And the closer you get to that person, you realize the wake of destruction that has the blessing and the curse that has gotten them to where they are is more often than not sacrificing, their home life in my, that's, that's my observation. So seeing people that are still have that intact and they're living a more balanced or appropriate delegated from a time perspective, that's very inspiring to me.

Jason Phillips (03:45.328)

You know, Chris, that actually almost happened to me. I was, there was a very momentous moment in my life. I'd been in business for a period of time and I was working seven days a week, you know, 12, 14 hours a day and often working after midnight. I'd have to go over to the microwave, open the door. My wife had set dinner in there, covered it up with a paper towel and all I had to do was preheat it. The kid, wife and kids would be in bed and

You know, I'd take my cold leftovers out of the microwave and peek at them, you know, put them in, heat them up. But the reality is, that's what my family was getting from me. They were getting my cold leftovers. And I had this moment, it was after midnight one night, I'm pecking away on the keyboard trying to do some administrative work or whatever. And man, that song, Cat's in the Cradle came on the radio and started telling the story about, about...

the guy who, yeah, and the father who was too busy to spend time with his son. And then later on, roles had reversed. Father was retired and now son was just like him. And that song ripped my heart out. And is that that moment, I mean, I slammed my hands on the desk and I just threw my hands up. I said, God, I need help. And I had to make a choice. I either had to...

Chris (04:45.18)

Little boy blue and the man on the moon.

Jason Phillips (05:12.784)

You know, it was very clear at that time. I either had to, you know, quit, but give up. Well, if I give up, who loses? My family. I could pull back, then I couldn't really provide with for them as well as I wanted to anymore. And neither of those sounded good. Or the third option was, you know what, I could build a team of people and everybody could win and we could all have what we want. And that's, thank God, that's the choice that I made at that point in time.

Chris (05:38.82)

Yeah, no, I think that just literally yesterday my brother -in -law sent me a podcast with from Robin Sharma I don't know if you've read any of his books He's got one called the saint the surfer and the CEO and then his most I think it's his latest one which I haven't read yet but that's what he was on this podcast talking about is The wealth money can't buy

And anyways, he, I've, I've never, it's just like one of those things where I, I love the moments in life where you are given a framework to articulate something that you felt or you've kind of intuited, but you've never been able to structure or organize it in your thoughts. If that makes sense. And, he has what he calls the eight different forms of wealth, which is inner inner wealth, physical wealth,

family and social wealth, career wealth, economic wealth, circle of genius, adventure success and impact wealth. So anyways, it's like we, for whatever reason, we, many people in the world are focused on the economic, right? How much money do I have in my bank account? And you might, you know, that's just, it's an arbitrary thing because you can't leave this world with it. So,

what else, what are the other things that you could try to optimize or maximize? or how do you spread, you know, to have a even distribution of wealth, across all eight forms. So, yeah, I feel like there are, it's, it is natural to be in a swing of far to one or the other or be striving towards one only to realize that you actually have.

The only reason people want more economic wealth oftentimes is to increase their family and social wealth, but you might be able to do that with a lot less, you know.

Jason Phillips (07:38.992)

I'm gonna have to check that. That's the wealth money can't buy. Okay, I'll have to add that one to my reading list. That sounds great. And this again, as over the years, my business was all, you get busy and you're out running your business. Maybe you're eating fast food, you're not working out, you're not taking care of yourself. Maybe the more money is helping you have some more expensive meals chock full of...

Chris (07:42.044)

Yeah.

Jason Phillips (08:08.688)

extra calories hanging out with the guys and all the cocktails, all that stuff. And boom, it starts packing on the pounds and your health starts going away. And I looked at myself in the mirror.

Jason Phillips (08:26.256)

Let's see, what year was this? this is about five years ago. And I was about to, I had made a promise to my kids that we were all gonna go for my wife and I's 25th wedding anniversary. We were all gonna go to Maui and spend a week there. And I looked in the mirror, I'm like, man, I don't like this. And so I made a change. And it wasn't just about that.

But it was about that, not just, I didn't like what I saw in the mirror, but it was, I've got five kids. I want to see my grandkids. I don't want to be old and sitting on the sidelines with them. I want to be able to go and run, jump, ride, swim, do, hike, all of those things I want to do with my family. I wanted to be thriving with vitality and health and energy. So I just knew that God had put me on this earth for more of a purpose. So I'm like, I've got to make some changes.

So, you know, I changed my environment, got on a meal plan, blah, blah, lost 60 pounds. And I feel incredible. I got in the best shape of my adult life. I did. Yeah. And, you know, it's every time now I see someone that's, you know, like an overweight person jogging on the side of the road, you know, it would be easy to go, look at that person. You know, you know what I do? Man, I'm like, good for you.

Chris (09:31.036)

60 pounds. That is intense.

Jason Phillips (09:49.968)

Good for you. You are doing something that most other people aren't doing. You're out there trying to make a change.

Chris (09:56.348)

Yeah, that's awesome. And so you that speaking of that, so it's about five years ago, you are on a workout streak. Tell me, tell me more about this. It sounds very interesting to me.

Jason Phillips (10:08.912)

Well, this was, gosh, this was right after COVID hit. I had started workout, you know, workout plans so many times. I get a week or two weeks or 30 days in and just fizzle out, you know? And I read, I had previously read Atomic Habits. And so I was wanting to do something and my son, my only son,

He's like, dad, I think I want to start working out. You want to work out with me? I'm like, yeah, I've been asking you to do this for years. And so we started working out on April 8th of 2020. And I haven't, I haven't missed one since, you know, through vacations, through COVID multiple times, no matter what, I'm going to show up, I'm going to suit up and I'm going to get something done. It may not look great that day, but I'm going to be there and I'm not going to break that streak.

Chris (11:00.092)

That's awesome. So is this, because you're getting sick, you're traveling, you fly somewhere. What is like the minimum in your mind of like, I'm doing, what is it? What counts as a workout?

Jason Phillips (11:15.568)

Well, when I, when I, man, when I had COVID, you know, I do video workouts, P90X, if you're familiar with Beachbody P90X, there's P90X, one, two, three, plus all these other things. And so those, depending on what they are, they're, you know, they're 30 minutes to 90 minute workouts and they're, you know, so I, I have a, I have a fitness room at my house. So go in, queue it up and get going. And when I had COVID, I mean, I might do pushups on my knees.

I might be, you know, doing curls with the lightest weight you could imagine, but I'm going to go through there and I'm going to go through the motions. And even if I'm about to throw up, I'm at least going to lay on the floor for the rest of the workout until I'm done. So a lot of people say, well, that's not very smart. Well, I mean, it's not like I'm during when I was really sick. I'm not like pushing myself to make things worse. That's dumb. But, you know, but even on, you know, on vacation.

Chris (12:07.292)

Yeah, yeah.

Jason Phillips (12:11.856)

And sometimes I might, you know, if I'm in a hotel or whatever, I might work in my room. I might go to their gym, might run on the treadmill. So I'm gonna do something.

Chris (12:23.452)

That's awesome. No, I think that the streaks like that are very, very powerful because yeah, it just keeps keeps top of mind the like, you're not going to let that you're not going to let that go.

Jason Phillips (12:37.584)

Well, once you know, but once you know, I and James, you know, James Clear, he talked about in his book, Atomic Habits, you know, if you miss if you miss a habit one day, you're like 90 % chance to pick it up again. But if you miss the second day in a row, your chances of picking it back up drop all the way like something down to like 58%. And so I'm like, man, I know me. Nope. I've done I've already lived that life. I'm not going to do it.

So for me, it's easier to keep going than it is to try to restart if I stop.

Chris (13:11.644)

What is the as far as personal growth goes so there's obviously the very tangible visible side of health but I'm sure that outside of the physical transformation that you've been on talk to me about your your interest or experience or obsession with personal growth in the other aspects of life mind body spirit all that stuff.

Jason Phillips (13:41.008)

We know one of the things that most people didn't realize about me is that every change that they saw from me actually started from on the inside. And this whole thing started actually, you know, I'm a Christian and I believe I study the Bible and you know, I spend time every day in prayer and just meditation and listening and reading. And, you know, I'm just literally just one morning I was just sitting there.

just praying, I was just being still and I just felt God impress upon me like He was speaking to me, Jason, I'm going to show you something about how your mind works. I'm like, okay, you know, and He had me get out a notebook and just said, write down your future best self. And I just started writing down all these aspects of, you know, my health, my family, my, you know, my relationships, my work, all of these things. I just...

started putting them in the first person present tense. You know, I am healthy, vibrant, fit, etc. And he said, now I want you to speak those out loud to yourself every single day. And so, which, and there's, gosh, Napoleon Hill talks about that stuff. Other people talk about these, about affirmations, basically. And I literally got on my treadmill every morning just because I like to get my blood flowing in the morning, not that I'm like,

necessarily working out, even if I work out in the afternoons, I want to get my blood flowing in the morning a little bit. So I do a little speed walking on the treadmill, I'd throw my iPad up there and I'd have all my affirmations. And I would just speak them out to myself with passion, like it's true. And, and soon after I noticed that my, you know, what I had been speaking purposefully began to bloom inside of me because my mind started making those things.

come true. And if my habits started to change, my desires started to change. And it, you know, there's so much negative communication coming in through our eyes and ears all around us on, you know, every media you could imagine saying, for every reason why you're a failure, why you're a loser, why you can't do this. So I wanted to, you know, take control of that narrative and say, you know, I read what

Jason Phillips (16:06.352)

I believe what the Bible says, Jesus says, you know, I came that they would have life and have it more abundantly. And so I believe in those things. And so I started speaking those things and taking control of the narrative in my life, instead of just, you know, letting it be what someone else is going to write for me.

Chris (16:25.66)

It reminds me of the, well, it's a modification of a famous quote that I've made for myself, but you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with or your friends predict your future. I've always thought that one of those five people could be or is, maybe there's a sixth person, is the content. What are you listening to?

What do you hear? What are you saying to yourself? What's that voice inside your head? And how do you change the voice inside your head? You know, if you change the five people you spend the most time with, the voice in your head is going to change, right? Whatever you're reading, whatever you're listening to. So I, yeah, a hundred percent agree with that. That's like, I used to think when I was, I remember in high school, someone talking to me about affirmations and being like, you know, you just got to tell yourself,

Jason Phillips (17:05.552)

Yeah, I agree.

Chris (17:21.788)

you're a better shooter and then you'll make more shots in the game. And I thought that was so stupid back then. But then now the way I would explain it to a high school kid is like, if you're struggling to believe that, that it's real, cause it is, it's very real. Let's think about the inverse of that. If you woke up every day and you're like, I'm terrible at basketball. I'm a worthless shooter. I'm never going to make a shot. And you said that to yourself every day.

and you just had that on repeat in your head. Do you think you'd be a better or worse shooter than you are today? Clearly you'd be worse. So why would the inverse of that not be true? You know, it's not a magic thing. It's just, you've got something playing inside your head all day and it's not, I'm using the basketball analogy, but obviously, yeah, apply it to whatever you want. And I am, I am a very strong believer in what you're talking about. You got to write it down. You got to speak it, say it, remind yourself about it.

and live into that. It's the same thing with like the vivid vision of your business or your family. My wife and I did that several years ago with just listing out kind of the different aspects of our life. What do we want our social life to be like? What kind of house do we want to have? What was our income and stuff? And we, so one thing we failed at was continuously talking and reading and pulling it back out, whether that's weekly or monthly.

but it was on my Google drive and I was searching for a vision of some other thing for a business. And I stumbled across the Chris and Natalie 2024 vision and we read it and like 95 % of it was true. It was like, it was now existence. And I remember some of the things that we had written down being like, that's like, I almost have embarrassed to say that. Like, I don't even know how that would happen. You know? so anyways.

Jason Phillips (19:13.776)

And you know, another part of that is your, our imaginations are powerful. You know, everything that came into being started with a thought, everything that was ever invented, right? It started all with a thought and, and, you know, I hang around, not hang around, I try to make a point to not hang around, but people that are always negative and they just want to, all they can talk about is the stupid things other people are doing. Well, you know, you,

Chris (19:25.34)

Hmm.

Chris (19:42.268)

Mm.

Jason Phillips (19:43.408)

I want to hear about the great things others are doing. And it's, you know, when we, I can't remember what the cognitive bias is, but when it makes us feel better about ourselves to see other people's failures. And it can be frightening to be around people that maybe are more successful than us in any, let's say those eight areas, in any of those eight areas.

Chris (19:46.748)

Yeah.

Chris (19:59.26)

Hmm.

Jason Phillips (20:13.136)

but that's the way you get your thinking and your reality stretched. And you can then start stepping into that when you can hang around and rub shoulders with people that are on a different level than you are. And I'm not just talking about like business success or money, but even healthy people, you know, and you hang around people that are into fitness and guess what? You're probably gonna start being a more fit person at some point.

Chris (20:39.196)

Yeah, no, I completely agree. I think that the my mind just went blank. My my notifications went off and now I'm sidetracked. Mute these guys again. Healthy person. OK, I got so happy you can cut that that dead space out. So I love all of this.

my question, having kids of your own, what do you do or what is like the, how has your parenting been affected or changed? Because, and this is like, I always love opportunities like this, cause this is my opportunity to be selfish. Cause I've got four kids all under the age of six and a half right now. So I'm like, I'm in it and I'm, I'm like so obsessive with like the, no, I'm not. I just.

maybe I'm over exaggerating, but I like to, I look at everything is like the output is going to be defined by the process or the systems like every time, like don't worry about the output, but what's, what are you doing on a daily basis and how is that affecting the output of your kids and what they're going to become? So what is your, like how, whether or not you, cause your kids are older, I'm, I guess I'm making an assumption here that when you had four kids under six,

Maybe your parenting was a lot, I'm assuming it was a lot different than it is now, but what was the, what is the parenting stuff that you wish you would have done differently or that you did do that you were really glad you did?

Jason Phillips (22:17.808)

Well, I, with a bunch of little kids, it's easy for, to have a frantic family, frantic times, things can go crazy. Days can blow up on you in an instant. When I, early on, you know, I was all about the rules. I was very demanding. This is the way we're going to do it. And,

And I'm so glad that I woke up from that because if you give a kid, a person rules without a relationship, you're going to end up with rebellion. But if you give them relationship without rules, you're going to, they're going to end up in ruin. And that the balance of that, that, you know, I, I,

Chris (22:52.796)

Mmm.

Jason Phillips (23:06.)

my relationship with them and my influence in their life is the most important thing. Even as they start to grow older, even when they don't do what I think they should do, you know, I'm not going to break that relationship with them. And something I'll tell you, Chris, something I wish I would have learned. I didn't learn this until my my children I didn't learn about personality styles until about nine or 10 years ago. And it

It changed my life because I see this so many other times. We think that our children, our little boy is going to be a chip off the old block. He's going to like and love all the same things. And so I see this in myself and in other parents. We try to raise our kids to be either just like us or maybe we want to live vicariously through them and raise them to do what we wished we had done.

Chris (24:04.988)

Mmm.

Jason Phillips (24:05.52)

But in reality, there's really no evidence that supports that, that, you know, our personality is, is directly related to our biology. There's this combination of, of, you know, you're born with a certain makeup and then, and, and then the environment with, in which you're raised has a significant impact on you as well. And, and I, we need to understand that when we have multiple children, we can't parent them all the same.

Chris (24:35.676)

Mm.

Jason Phillips (24:35.952)

We can't discipline all them, them all the same. And we can't speak to them. I've got, I've got, you know, one kid I've got to be very direct and firm with or else they're never going to get it or they don't get it. But I've got another one. If I, if I speak to her like that, it will crush her. She's the most gentle soul. I have to be completely, I have to completely communicate different with her than I, than I do the others and knowing those different,

nuances to their personality. I believe that my job as a parent is to help that child grow up to be all that God created them to be, not to be a little Jason or a little my wife's name is Rochelle or a little Rochelle and help them be who God created them to be with their unique gifts. And so I think understanding personalities, personality styles, behaviors has been transformational.

Chris (25:19.036)

Hmm.

Jason Phillips (25:33.2)

in my life as a husband, as a parent, as a leader, as a business owner, everywhere.

Chris (25:39.164)

I'm going to come, I have a follow up. I just wanted to introduce the guy that just came in the room. Nathan works with us at Boolean and he was going to be on at the beginning, but his other meeting was running along. So he had texted me and I didn't think he was going to be able to, but I told him to just hang out. And if he wants, he can ask a question here and there. once he picks up where we're going. so happy you can go ahead and cut out this little part and then seamlessly cut to my follow up question here.

Jason Phillips (25:58.064)

Hey, Nathan.

Nathan (25:59.331)

Hey Jason, good to meet you.

Jason Phillips (26:02.224)

Yes, sir.

Chris (26:08.816)

So I want, I would love to dive into that, the topic of personality styles, which you, is it disc that you are trained in?

Jason Phillips (26:20.464)

Yeah, disk. There's a lot of great systems out there. After looking at a number of them, I settled on disk for a few reasons. One is that it's easy to understand. It's easy to help understand yourself. But two, disk is made for, it's intended to help you in your relationships and in your communication.

So it helps me understand me, helps me understand those around me. And it teaches me how to adapt my communication style for better interactions with people. And the other piece of that is it's easy to teach. It's easy to roll out and help other people grasp. Like the language of disk is very common with every team member in my company. And it's just so simple. It is so simple.

And you can just look at someone's chart real quick and have a basic understanding of how to deal with them.

Chris (27:23.932)

So what is your disc profile?

Jason Phillips (27:28.464)

So my D and my I are like almost at the very max. And then my S is really low and my C beats S by just a little bit. So D is hard. I'm pretty extreme on all of those.

Chris (27:46.716)

Wow. So just.

Nathan (27:47.203)

Jason, we would be friends. We would be friends because we're the same. And actually, I feel like there's some discs that they don't get along with the people that are the same as them. But I feel like whenever I hear somebody who's like, hi D, hi I, I'm like, we could be friends. Yeah.

Jason Phillips (27:50.224)

What's that, Nathan?

Hahaha

Jason Phillips (28:04.88)

Yeah, you know, there's some there's some nuances like if you've got if you've got two people that are both really high D's, they they may compete for control. But if you get two people that are really high eyes, they may compete for attention.

Nathan (28:13.219)

Sure. Yeah.

Nathan (28:20.835)

Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, I suppose it depends on the environment too, right? It's like...

Chris (28:26.108)

Yeah, or what's the team? What's the goal here? What are we doing together? Or what's the what's won or lost in this pod of people that is all being thrown together?

Jason Phillips (28:37.392)

Well, you know what's interesting guys is, when you start a business, we're typically naturally attracted to people that are more like us. And so we get business owners, let's just say like me or like any of them, they go out and they hire a team of people that are just like them. Then they end up with a whole company that's lopsided with all the same strengths and all the same weaknesses.

as them. And what we need to do is we need to build a well -rounded team that is has elements of all of all the four primary personality styles. Could you imagine a football team where every every player is the quarterback or every player is the kicker? It would be a miserable failure. You need people with different strengths. But the difficulty in doing that is there's conflicts.

between people that are faster paced and people that are slower paced. And also some people are more task oriented and some people are more people oriented. And so there can be conflicts introduced. And so if we don't know how to navigate and appreciate those situations and people that are different than us, we're never gonna be able to build a cohesive team that really is well -rounded.

Chris (30:03.516)

Hmm. And, so how does this, I'm, I love the business side of things, but I'm also interested in, so you mentioned with personality types and your kids, how do you, you are, you talked a little bit about like your, you gotta be more gentle or whatever, but at what point did you have your kids take a disc disc assessment? How, how early can you see personalities? Or I mean, maybe there, you probably can identify,

you with your experience, you can take a good guess on like a, you know, a six year old, whether or not they can actually functionally take the test. You can kind of observe it in them, but when is like an appropriate time to have your kids take a test if, if you wanted to.

Jason Phillips (30:50.48)

You know, they have assessments for kids that are a little bit different. And they're real careful with kids because you don't want to box them in. And so you want to be real careful with that. But once you're like 13, you can take the adult assessments. But if you look at it, okay, for instance, Ds and Is are faster paced people. They move faster. They think fast.

Okay, S's and C's take time. I don't mean that their brain is slow, but they like to make a more thorough decision, a more careful decision. So they take time, they talk slower, they're not quick to respond, they don't interrupt you when you're talking a lot of the times. And so you can start seeing the pattern.

you know, this is a slower paced person, which means they're going to be more towards S and C rather than D and I. Okay. And then you get, so then from there, you know, if we could draw this out, if we had a whiteboard, I could draw this all out for you on a nice little, you know, four quadrants. But, but,

Is and S's are more people focused and D's and C's are more task focused. And so it doesn't take very long to see, you know, like if you go hang, if you hang out with me for a few minutes, you're going to know Jason walks fast. And early on when you first introduced me, if you count my words per minute during my 60 to 90 seconds, they were pretty high. I talk fast.

I talk fast, I walk fast, I think fast, I make quick decisions. Sometimes that works great, sometimes it doesn't. Okay, but when you can start realizing, you can see those patterns once you start understanding it. Now, I'll tell you something that's also, you know, Nathan, I might mention is sometimes opposites attract. And I see this a lot in relationships like...

Jason Phillips (33:07.44)

I'm high DI, my wife is SNC. Okay, so on one hand, you put us together and we've got all the bases covered. On the other hand, I'm fast, she's slow.

on both of those.

Nathan (33:29.571)

Sounds like tug of war.

Jason Phillips (33:30.96)

So, and so let me, let me tell you what the number one, let me tell you what the number one frictions that we had for in our marriage early on and for a long time. If, if, if we had a disagreement, Hey, come on. No, we got to figure this out right now. No, no, no, no. We're not going to sleep. We're going to figure this out. No, she, what she wanted to do. She wanted to go to bed. She wanted to take a nap. She wanted to think about it.

Chris (33:33.468)

Hurry up, slow down, hurry up.

Jason Phillips (33:58.64)

And two days later, when I'm way past this thing and now she's ready to talk about it, I'm like, what? Okay. And so, and so when, you know, when I would want to, let's say, argue it out or fight it out or settle it, she would dig in and want to go inward. And that would make, that would just inflame me. And so it was just a negative spiral. And when I, when I finally figured that out, I'm like, my God.

I have had this so wrong. She's made completely different than me. And, you know, and she and when she realized that about me, she, you know, it just made a huge difference in our, in our marriage. And for instance, I've got one of my daughters, her, her D is like 99 is 99. And, and you can't, you know, hey, you know,

Her name is Emma. Emma, you've got to do this. She doesn't like to be told what to do. She wants control. The number one conflict I've ever had with that child is over control. So you have to do things a little differently. You have to say, instead of Emma, I want you to go clean your room. Something like this. Hey, Emma, now you got to get your room clean. Would you rather do it before dinner or would you rather have dinner first and clean your room later? Now, all of a sudden, she's in control of when it happens. And those type of things, you know,

really go a long way in your relationships.

Chris (35:30.044)

I love that. I'm, I want to go back to the, relationship piece that you mentioned also of as far as parenting goes, it's, there's a temptation to basically, raise your kids to basically be like you, but minus all the stuff you regretted doing or wish you did or whatever, or live vicariously through them. That's obviously a recipe for disaster.

Well, did you have a model of the relationship piece? cause you were, I actually, I'm just remembering anything. We were talking about this not too long ago, but I had, someone who said, the, the, there's a acronym rim relationship identity and mission. And a lot of times we think, and this is in relationship to God, we think that we need to figure out our mission.

be successful in that, that we can have an identity that we, you know, something we identify with, then we're worthy of a relationship with God. But in reality, it's the exact opposite because well, if, when you go mission identity relationship, if you're successful in the mission, then you're, you've got ego and you think you don't even think you need a relationship. But if you fail in the mission, then you don't know who you are and you feel like you're not worthy.

Jason Phillips (36:38.416)

Wow.

Chris (36:57.756)

but that doesn't matter because the correct way is relationship first as a foundation. And I feel like that's when I heard this, this was a couple of weeks ago at church, I was just like, this is a great, it just like, it reminded what you said about parenting with your kids. It's just like that the analogy in life of our relationship with God is our relationship with our kids is a microcosm of God's relationship with us, right? It's just like another,

Jason Phillips (37:02.256)

100%.

Chris (37:26.684)

It's right in front of us all the time, you know? And the...

Jason Phillips (37:29.36)

But think about this, Chris, think about this. How many people are out there that even in the church that still have it backwards, they may sit under teaching that says it the right way, but there's this thing that's ingrained in us through society and even some churches is you earn it.

You basically, if you think about, I mean, if you wanna talk about the Bible for a second, what was Judas' greatest sin? Was it betraying Jesus or was it the fact that he tried to atone for his own sin by killing himself? So, it's like, there's this thought that, hey, if I don't sin today, I feel like I can go ask God for what I want.

Or if I've sinned, I feel like I need to stay away. I don't feel worthy to talk to Him. Or, my gosh, I'm giving a tithe. I feel I am righteous. I am good. And those are wrong things. That's not what... I mean, the gift of salvation is 100 % free. And anything that says we've got to earn it is the antithesis of the free gift of God.

Chris (38:43.004)

Hmm.

Nathan (38:48.675)

Yeah, I think of like Peter and Judas made big mistakes in that same night, same 24 hour period, right? Who did God build his church on? You know, so it's like, but it's, I don't know, you know, you would assume Peter's relationship was came first, right? Like he screwed it up. They both screwed it up. But like you said, they took different paths because of that, right?

Jason Phillips (39:01.584)

That's right. That's right.

Yeah, Peter was a loose cannon.

Jason Phillips (39:10.832)

Yeah, I mean.

Nathan (39:17.443)

Judas took it on as his own identity and went down that path and Peter stayed true to the relationship.

Chris (39:21.372)

Mmm.

Jason Phillips (39:26.352)

That's right. That's right. man, that's fun stuff right there. I love talking about that too.

Chris (39:30.972)

And it's exactly what happens in business.

Jason Phillips (39:34.352)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Nathan (39:35.511)

you

Chris (39:36.572)

no, I, I do think I, I laugh all the time about, it seems like to me in the, the ancient religious wisdom, right. I've just like fasting and just like self denial or discipline, right. And now everything is getting repackaged in today's world under like this self optimization and everything, which is not bad. It's just the, it's like,

you know, the monks have been doing this forever. Like there, the, there's these practices of like, just good, healthy, discipline in your life and how that trickles down to everything else. And then now it's like, you know, if you want to have more energy or be fit or whatever, you should do X, Y, and Z. And it's like, it's just, it's just interesting to me that there's so much wisdom. exactly.

Jason Phillips (40:32.336)

Yeah, they pack it like it's something new. Yeah.

Nathan (40:36.259)

Thank you.

Chris (40:38.108)

so I'm keeping an eye on the time here. I want to be respectful of your time. Any other things that you came with today, Jason, that you wanted to mention, talk about exciting stuff going on in your world?

Jason Phillips (40:54.16)

I tell you, I love, I spend most of my, pretty close to most of my time working with other contractors, just because the mission of Contractor Freedom is to lead, inspire, and equip business owners to become business leaders so that they can live their lives with greater freedom and purpose. And...

I've met a lot of, and through the years even, a lot of business owners that would love to go on a missions trip with their church, but they can't because they're shackled to their business or they don't have the money. And I had a young lady one time ask me at a conference somewhere, she said, Jason, she said, you know, obviously you're a successful guy.

Is it okay to want to make money?

And I said, well, how do you think all those orphanages get built?

And you know, as business owners, we and not just business owners, but but any, you know, but especially as business owners, we're, we're in a unique place of influence. And when we when we do things right, we can do a lot of good things in this world with it. And in in contracting and the painting industry, especially and others, but there's nobody there, there's not enough people teaching you.

Jason Phillips (42:34.576)

how to run a business. They may teach you how to build a widget, but how do I run a successful business that actually serves my life instead of me serving my business? See, I believe our business needs to support and be a vehicle in our life to help us get where we're going rather than something we pour our blood, sweat and tears into that really gives us nothing at the end other than maybe some finances and pays our bills.

Chris (43:02.98)

reminds me this will be a quote you probably you may have actually read or heard about this book, but the ruthless elimination of hurry. Have you read that? Okay, so best quote in the book is if that and actually I'm trying to think if this is from this book or if there's a different version of it in it. But if the devil if the devil can't make you sin, he'll make you busy. Have you heard that?

Jason Phillips (43:13.68)

I have I have it but I have not read it yet.

Jason Phillips (43:29.584)

Yes, I have heard that before.

Chris (43:31.548)

And I feel like that's the, that's like a business that's running you is just making you so busy. Like you're just, you're just running around doing tasks, being so efficient and everyone's trying to like maximize productivity. And it's like, to what, like when you, when you become more efficient or more productive, you buy back time, right? What are you going to do with that time? Just do more revenue and then get right back to being crazy busy again, you know? So there's a,

Jason Phillips (44:00.88)

That's right.

Chris (44:01.244)

there's discipline in, I need to free myself up, not so I can do more work, but so that I have the time to be with my family, to go on the mission trip to, you know, cause we, that's, that's what we were created for. yeah. And, and the, I also love the mission state, state your mission again, just a single sentence of contractor freedom.

Jason Phillips (44:23.536)

It's to lead, inspire, and equip business owners to become business leaders so that they can live their lives with greater freedom and purpose.

Chris (44:33.308)

Hmm. Yeah. Cause our, at Boolean, our mission is to free you up to do what you love, which is through, obviously we do that through automation, but whether you love your kids or fishing or whatever it is, but not just the business owner, the people in the business too, because I firmly believe that people love solving good problems. They don't love data entry and copying and pasting things 16 different times throughout the day. And that's what we need computers for.

Cause that I genuinely like joking aside, I feel like it's inhumane. Some of the things that people do in their business or make employees do in their business, that it's like, I, I'm a big technology guy, but at the same time, technology without a purpose or a vision of like, like I said, if the devil can't make you say, it'll make you busy. Technology is, can be a vice or a controlling thing on us.

that just makes us go faster and faster and faster. And we're checking email and texting and doing podcasts and all this stuff. It's like, no, we need to leverage technology to make us more efficient, to free us up, to be more intentional with what we're going to do in our day. So anyways, I love, I love that. let's head to the wrap up questions. three book recommendations.

Jason Phillips (45:54.608)

So I love the book, Crucial Conversations. My whole leadership team has read it. My second level leadership team is about to finish it. I've read that book numerous times. That is a great book, Crucial Conversations. Of course, The Five Levels of Leadership by John Maxwell is another favorite of mine. Atomic Habits.

is a great is a great book. I've read that multiple times that had a huge impact. It's not rocket science. It's simple, but a lot of times the best things in life are simple. And the other book I read every single day is the Bible.

Chris (46:39.356)

Awesome. And what is your favorite movie?

Jason Phillips (46:43.888)

Okay, don't laugh at me, but my wife and I have watched this movie numerous times together. It's The Notebook.

Chris (46:52.86)

notebook. That's like I watched I feel like I watched that movie Nat my wife told me about it back when we were like a year into marriage and we were I was like it's it's a I did cry I will admit I cried but it's a good movie it's hard I don't I don't enjoy watching movies like that that just make me break down I've also found out tell me you think this is true you guys can both tell me when I had kids

I started crying. I'm trying to remember what the movie was. I cried in, I think it was an Incredibles. Was that the movie? the second one, just because like, I don't know, it was like the weirdest thing. Like I, you have kids like my first daughter, she's like a six month old and it just like everything hits you differently when you've got kids. So.

Jason Phillips (47:46.224)

It sure does, doesn't it? Yeah, it does.

Chris (47:47.196)

Yeah. And what is the, your preferred method of contact if someone wants to get in touch with you?

Jason Phillips (47:53.744)

The easiest way to get in touch with me is to go to contractorfreedom .live and all my social links and my email everything is on there. Contractorfreedom .live.

Chris (48:07.196)

Awesome. Well, Jason, this was super fun. Thank you for being generous with your time and we look forward to seeing you around at other painting events.

Jason Phillips (48:15.952)

Thanks for having me today, Chris, Nathan, see you guys.

Nathan (48:18.595)

Yeah.